Marijuana and Life Insurance

[Suby]

Hello All!
I am recently in the market for life insurance, I have a young child and want to make sure she is taken care of in the event of something tragic to either me or my wife.
My question is not concerning how long it takes to clear the system, my insurance broker flat out told me they test for some drugs and MJ can be one of them.
He also told me that they no longer refuse MJ smokers because 30-40% of applicants test postivie in some way to MJ (I know alot huh). He said that heavy users of MJ and smokers can be required to pay substantially more for their policies than occasional "light" smokers.
I have been detoxing for the better part of 3 weeks now, I plan to go a full 2 months clean so as to be sure to test negative completely for MJ as I can save about 1500-2000$ over the next 10 years due to prefereed rate status.
The questionaire section administered by the nurse will ask for drugs, cigarette smoking and potentially life threatening diseases.
I don't drink, smoke, or do any drugs, I don't consider MJ a drug but that's another thread. If I test positive for any of these my results will go to a data base (the goverment is not allowed acces to these only other insurance companies).
I know I am rambling but I had to do alot of research to get a handle on all the logistics behind insurance as most insurance companies will do everything in their power not to pay out the claim.
There is a 2 years contestability clause for all life insurance from what I have read, meaning if you say you don't smoke cigarettes and you do but you die 4 years into your policy they can't refuse your claim, withing 2 years they can use any untruthfull information or any information you may have neglected to share to refuse your claim, past that they have to pay.
I plan to say I never smoked on my application which is why I am detoxing for so long, I am concerned that say I should die in a car crash that they can ask for an autopsy and refuse my claim based on a postive MJ test.
I am wondering if I should admit to being an occasional smoker and let my piss test do the talking as to how much seing as it will be clean.

If anything this thread can serve as a place to compile information, many smokers need life insurance to cover business loans, etc.
I find there are alot of gray areas, if any insurance brokers can chime in here that would be great.
NORML has an article about life insurance they are providing that is pro MJ, they cover smokers indescriminately.

Thank you all in advance for sharing your knowledge, questions, or experiences.

 

[tnt_blaster]

Mine never tested.. just asked. 2 months is more than enough to clear up.

 

[Che]

Look at it this way; what more important to you: saving a couple grand a year, or risking that your loved ones won't be taken care of, due to an inconsistency on your part.

If you know for a fact that it won't be an issue, then you have nothing to fear. But if there is a question, it would seem to me that you're giving them carte blanche as well as your money, and your loved ones fate will remain in their hands.

Choose wisely. Personally, I would cop to occasional smoking, but still try to pass the test as clean as you are.

 

[Pythagllio]

I think I don't have a problem with taking a risk that I'll be the first person in history to die of cannabis. The two year window to contest is absolutely correct. But whether the company will challenge it at all depends on the amount. A $10k policy probably won't be looked at twice regardless. A $2 million policy will get scrutiny even if the insured is 99 years old with a doctor by his hospital bed when he dies.

Not all insurance companies test for cannabis. When my wife an I got policies at the same time for different companies I got tested for it, she didn't. Oh, they do turn over to the applicant all the info that they gather after the fact.

Regardless, I'd substitute for sure. QuickFix works wonders in situations like this.

 

[hempzi]

this happened to my parents. my mom smokes.

she just told the insurance guy and he just put off her tests for a month.

 

[Suby]

After more reading I'm leaning towards Che's way of thinking, I'll put myself down as an occasional smoker and try and test 100% clean.
This way if I test positive after an accident then I haven't ouright lied on my application.
Looks like I have 5 weeks to go, I can't say it's been very difficult but then againg I smoke between .5-1 gram a day and I vape.
I had a hard time sleeping for the first 3 days and was a bit grumpy but that's it.
I must say that I coughed alot during the first 2 weeks, I even had pains in my chest when I did.
I have chronic back pain and Tylenol's are not cutting it, I can deal with pain for the security of my loved ones though.
A visit to my accupunturist will be on the agenda soon.

I appreciate all your comments, I hope this turns out to be usefull for other members.

 

[GrassRoots]

I worked for and sold term life insurance for a major company until I got laid off a while back. If you say you smoke weed occasionally with our company you will get standard tobacco rates, a far cry from the preferred non-smoker rate that you are looking at getting now. The negative test won't mean shit, if you say you smoke occasionally, then you smoke and you're getting the smoker rate. The only exceptions to this rule were people who claim they smoke less than 12 cigars per year, as long as they come up negative on the nicotine test we would give them our second best non-smoker rate. FYI, we didn't even test for weed, just coke and nicotine. As far as them finding you out if you die within two years, yeah, it's true, if you die, and if they found out you lied, you're family isn't getting paid (although they will get the premiums you paid in returned to them). I did not work on that end of the business and I don't know how good we were at finding liars but there is very little doubt in my mind that we tried as hard as we could.

 

[Suby]

Thanks for the post GrassRoots.

Are life insurance companies allowed to request an autopsy in the case of accidental death?
Also are they entitled to request a blood test in the case of a fatal illness?
I'm trying to find answers as to what the legal limit of contestability is.
I am pretty sure my broker told be less than dozen joints a year won't require me paying smoker rates, I live in Canada so I'm thinking the parameters might me slightly different here, smoking is much more socialy acceptable in my province also.

TY

 

[B.Grant]

I am pretty sure my broker told be less than dozen joints a year won't require me paying smoker rates, I live in Canada so I'm thinking the parameters might me slightly different here, smoking is much more socialy acceptable in my province also.

TY

Why do you have to be a smoker at all? You could be an occasional cannabis user, not necessarily a smoker. Maybe you bake or cook with cannabis and ingest it that way. I wouldn't, and don't, admit to my life insurance people to smoking anything. I prefer other means of ingesting my medications. But like the others said, and I agree, I would try to pass the test. Just a thought to consider.

 

[Suby]

That's a fucking genius loophole B.Grant, technically I vaporize and use tinctures and not smoke.
That will only apply if the question is phrased as do you smoke MJ rather than do you consume MJ.
My real concern is say I have a car accident, they do a blood test and I'm + for MJ, say I smoked the day before (I never smoke and drive...ever) can they default on my insurance.
I know I'm getting very situational here but winter is 6 months of the year here, I live in the country and I have been a passenger in 4 major accidents, plus I have a rather heavy foot (but not nearly as bad as before my daughter).
Passing the test should not be a problem, I have a few weeks to go, I've actually lost count whether I've been sober 4-5 weeks now dammit, I'll go another 3 as of the date of this post and use the usual methosds of circumvention as precaution.

 

[litebuzz]

admit nothing in regards to marijuana....in the event you die in a crash and test positive...there's so many things that could have caused a false positive. i would think a lawyer would blow holes all over that claim. i medicate on the herb daily and when i did a test for insurance nothing was ever said. i doubt they even waste their time looking for thc in someones blood.
continue on your detox...take your test...and move on. don't give it a second thought.

 

[B.Grant]

That's a fucking genius loophole B.Grant, technically I vaporize and use tinctures and not smoke.
That will only apply if the question is phrased as do you smoke MJ rather than do you consume MJ.
My real concern is say I have a car accident, they do a blood test and I'm + for MJ, say I smoked the day before (I never smoke and drive...ever) can they default on my insurance.
I know I'm getting very situational here but winter is 6 months of the year here, I live in the country and I have been a passenger in 4 major accidents, plus I have a rather heavy foot (but not nearly as bad as before my daughter).
Passing the test should not be a problem, I have a few weeks to go, I've actually lost count whether I've been sober 4-5 weeks now dammit, I'll go another 3 as of the date of this post and use the usual methosds of circumvention as precaution.

I was only asked if I was a smoker or not and I said "No", as in no to smoking tobacco, to cannabis, etc. But, I am a former tobacco user, and I do occasionally ingest cannabis in this method. I do feel that it is not necessary to elaborate too much. If they do ask about cannabis, I would admit to occasional use, but I would absolutely stress that I ingest it without smoking it!
Also, price around through different companies and see what sort of questions they ask, and rates you get in response to them.

 

[Suby]

Thanks alot guys

 

[vta]

What about getting a script for Marinol?

 

[Suby]

No way, then I would be A) encouraging big pharma in their witch hunt for MJ and B) putting myself on record within the medical system and since I grow there's no way I'm doing that.

Thanks though

 

[Balance]

I would never own accidental insurance as a smoker. Autopsy or blood work will be mandatory to recieve any money. Every accident can be claimed "avoidable accident" or "criminal activity", if you have marijuana in your system.
Let's take your example, Suby. You die in a car wreck...autopsy says you smoked that day...your dead ass is charged with DUI ... no payout.
Life insurance is the same way, except there are circumstances where you could get the money. Sudden illness would be a good example of payable death, provided your illness wasn't marijuana related.
I have no knowledge of insurance in Canada, or how decriminalized mj offenses are there. However, you know how hard insurance companies work to deny payouts.
If it were me, I'd take my tric microscope...... and read some fine print.

 

[Suby]

I agree, I'm sure an autopsy will be required, HOWEVER only within the 2 year contestability time frame, from what I have read past that I can 3 times over the legal limit they have to pay and have no right to request bloodwork or autopsy.
Please someone correct me if I am wrong here.
Even if I get lung cancer and I am past the 2 year contestability mark they have no choice put to pay the claim.
Alot of cigarette smokers have looped this one, they passed the 2 year mark and where paying non-smoker rates and they had to pay out.
Again the whole point of this thread is to get everyone's point of view on this, if I am wrong in my interpretation of the law someone help me out here.

 

[Pythagllio]

How could they say that you weren't a non-smoker when you applied for the insurance, and subsequently took up the habit? In order to prove fraud they'd have to prove you lied on the application. Again, pass the two year mark and the policy is not contestable. If within 2 years and they are able to contest it your family does get the premiums refunded. Reality though is that if the payout is 100k or less they're not likely to give it a second thought. There's a lot of speculation without basis being presented as fact in this thread.

 

[Suby]

Good point man, that`s along the lines of what I read, alot of cigarette smokers test clean and pay non-smoker rates, the insurance companies do not even request to be updated with your smoking habits and legally speaking they could have started smoking afterwards, it`s their word against ours.
If I say I`m non weed smoker and test clean then what grounds do they have really.
For the record I am applying for 500 000.00$.
I am not using accidental insurance, if I`m not mistaken that`s when your benefits double in case of accidental death.
I thinking if I say I smoke occasioanlly then it just gives them something to look for if/when they investigate.

As you guys can see I`m still a bit on the fence on this one...

 

[headiez247]

For the record I am applying for 500 000.00$.

Good move, anything less is honestly pointless. Someone mentioned a 10k policy, wtf could anyone do with 10k, that wouldn't even cover your funeral costs.