Major Magnesium Deficiency in Organic Soil Need HELP! PLS!

[fuhshietfu]

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on? 3 WEEKS
What STRAIN are you growing? DUTCH PASSION CALIFORNIA ORANGE
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)SEED
What is the age of your plants? 2 MONTHS
How Tall are the plants? 3 1/2 FEET
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? FLOWERING
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) LST
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 GALLLON
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) LC MIX#2, W/FOXFARM POM TOMATO/VEG AND FRUIT N FLOWERS, MAXICROP, 2 TBSP DOLOMITE LIME/GAL
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* BEEN WATERING WITH THE BASIC VEG TEA MIX COMPOST TEA AS THE PLANTS SHOWED THEY NEED IT DURING FLOWERING.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?EVERY 3-5 DAYS
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?2 DAYS AGO, ONCE EVERY 6-7 DAYS
What size bulb are you using?400W HPS/COOL TUBE
What is the distance to the canopy?6 INCHES
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 60-65
What is the canopy temperature?80-85
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)160CFM EXHAUST AND 170CFM FOR THE 400W LIGHT
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? YES AT THE TOP
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?NO
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? TEPID WATER, SITTING OUT FOR 24HRS
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?CLONED 2 WEEKS AGO
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?I USED NEEM OIL SOIL DRENCH WITH SOAP WHICH I THINK WAS A MISTAKE B/C IT KINDA MESS THEM UP FOR A FEW DAYS. I ALSO TOPDRESS SOME EXTRA DOLOMITE LIME B/C I THOUGHT THE PH WAS OFF DUE TO SOME SPOTTING EARLY ON AFTER SOIL DRENCH W/NEEM N SOAP
Are plant's infected with pest's?SOME FUNGAS GNATS BUT UNDER CONTROL

Its basically a classic Magnesium deficiency, yellowing from tips with dark green veins. Appearing at middle and top of the plant. The problem has progressed alot since it first began. Alot of my top leaves are showing this yellow with green veins. Some of the worse ones are starting to curl up at the tip with little brown spots. This is starting to happen to 2 or 3 big fan leaves. The general yellowing and green veins are almost taken over all the fans leaves on the bushy plants.

I have 2 plants and both are showing Mg def but the bushier one is way worse than the other. I only have a soil PH test kit when I test the top of the soil with it shows a 6.5-7 ph. This is probably from the extra tablespoon of Dolomite lime I topdressed in the beginning of flowering due to some PH spotting from the need soil drench(w/soap think I put too much)

The plant has recovered nicely and was growing great until I flipped to 12/12 It started to show MG def, I first foilared with DL and was told not use it for foilar or foilar at all in flowering.

So i started to water with Epsom salt at 1-2 tsp everywatering, so far given 5 epsom salt feedings in last 3 weeks with teas as well. The yellowing didn't stop and spread to other leaves on top. I recently read I am suppose to dissolve the salt in Hot water then add it to watering? I haven't been doing that just straight into room temp water and stir for a minute not sure if thats why?

I am really stumped on why the plant wont take up Magnesium it seems to take up other nutes fine. I had a few bottom leaves showing N def in stretch and with the teas I fed it slowed them down alot so that means they are taking it up right?

I read that too much calcium can create a problem for Mg uptake? Could this be due to the extra dolomite lime I added during flowering? can that cause a lockout of MG only???

I have 4 weeks left in flowering, and the rest of the plant is doing great, the buds development are coming along great, its just the damn MG def I can't seem to slow it down?

Any advice pls? I need to fix this asap.

Thanks
Fuhshietfu

 

[Johnny Rotten]

You may have over did it....i'd give it a foliar spray with some mag and seaweed and a flush and start her off with some fresh nutes.

 

[KissOfDeath]

I never spray anything on my plants after they start to bud, but that's your call.

However I would agree that a flush is a good idea. You may just have a salt buildup causing lockout.

I'd suggest using something like Clearex to avoid hypotonic shock.

Check your runoff ec and pH and see what's going on down there.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Stick to spraying both sides of the fan leaves if your worried about mold...i'd say your quite early to be worrying about that though.....make sure your humidity is good.

 

[fuhshietfu]

Mold was never a problem in my room.

I already stated spraying wasn't recommended during flowering as well.

Flushing is said not to be necessary in organics since there isn't anything in there the plant can take directly.

To my understanding, there shouldn't be a salt build up since I only used organic nutes all the way through and started adding the epsom salt lately , only thing I would be flushing out is the epsom salts i recently added.

I am not sure why the plant isn't taking up the Mg, is it b/c I dont dissolve the salt in hot water first? Does that really make a difference compared to just stirring for couple minutes in room temp water?

I haven't been adding much more then the recommended amount, 1-2 tsp/gal for big plants I am not sure that I actually over did it.

Is flushing really necessary?

anyone old timers can chime me pls?

 

[toodles]

I don't think the problem is a Magnesium deficit.

First you used LC's #2 mix with dolomite lime right?, Then you added more lime at one point, right? Now you've been watering in MgSO4 for a while, right?

No way IMO can you have a Mg deficit. You probably have an excess of Mg in that soil now. I guess you could flush, but that shocks a plant and may get the MG out, but at what other "cost"? Will flushing cause yet another new problem? IMO, once a soil mix is screwed up like I think yours may be, I get my plant out of it. Adding this, that , and the other trying to get your soil back healthy is a losing proposition IMO.

If it were my plant, I'd repot it in some fresh new soil that is properly mixed...nothing "hot" though. LC#2 with light/moderate additions of whatever amendments you like to use for this stage of growth.

Remove the plant from the pot, and get rid of as much of the old soil as possible. Try not to screw up too much of the root mass. Repot in new soil. Don't saturate the plant when repotting. Your new soil should be nice and moist but not "wet". You don't want to smother/drown the roots. They'll grow more quickly into soil that isn't overly wet.

Good luck

Toodles

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Nah, you should definitely add more mag to the soil.....both lime and epsoms. You have to boil, then freeze lime 10 times to get it active and usuable for a foliar.

Yup, foliars are useless a couple weeks into flower. I never spray leaves or undersides, i just pour it on the buds and then turn my room off for a couple days to let it soak in.

Be sure to not listen to anyone and just keep adding magnesium.....REMEMBER MORE MAGNESIUM!!! ORGANICS NEVER NEED FLUSHING!!

 

[toodles]

Nah, you should definitely add more mag to the soil.....both lime and epsoms. You have to boil, then freeze lime 10 times to get it active and usuable for a foliar.

Yup, foliars are useless a couple weeks into flower. I never spray leaves or undersides, i just pour it on the buds and then turn my room off for a couple days to let it soak in.

Be sure to not listen to anyone and just keep adding magnesium.....REMEMBER MORE MAGNESIUM!!! ORGANICS NEVER NEED FLUSHING!!

That's the dumbest advice I have seen on here in a while. You looking to take Black Velvet's place? What a fucking moron.

fuhshietfu:

Think about all the "extra" crap you have put into that soil. More lime, Neem oil, soap, Epsom Salts. You have contaminated that soil beyond salvage IMHO.

Get your plants out of it and into some new soilmix

Toodles

PS

1. Flushing is not necessary in Organics. Nothing to flush. You "could" do it as I said above(in an attempt to get the epsom salts out), but I think it's a lame idea and it'd do more harm than good IMO. You've messed up your plant's soil IMO.

2. Dissolving epsom Salts in hot water isn't necessary either. Makes it easier, but isn't required.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Nah, you should definitely add more mag to the soil.....both lime and epsoms. You have to boil, then freeze lime 10 times to get it active and usuable for a foliar.

Yup, foliars are useless a couple weeks into flower. I never spray leaves or undersides, i just pour it on the buds and then turn my room off for a couple days to let it soak in.

Be sure to not listen to anyone and just keep adding magnesium.....REMEMBER MORE MAGNESIUM!!! ORGANICS NEVER NEED FLUSHING!!

i should keep the sarcasm out of the infirmary....for the overly stoned and the utterly helpless.

Flushing doesn't stress a plant nearly as much as ripping 3/4 of its root system off trying to take it out of shit soil. (most of the fine roots you can barely see and they are the ones doing the work)


Not to mention the shock it will go though which will completely ruin your harvest. A flowering plant has a countdown clock to ripening and that doesn't stop when you rip it from it's home and shove it in a new one. It's not like a vegetative clone....

Foliar's during harvest....kinda like dew outside? Keep the spray off the buds and you wont be smoking it....undersides of fan leaves, remember? Personal choice there....

 

[toodles]

Flushing doesn't stress a plant nearly as much as ripping 3/4 of its root system off trying to take it out of shit soil. (most of the fine roots you can barely see and they are the ones doing the work)

If you transplant like that,,yep it'll kill it. And that's not what I recommended. Morons shouldn't be allowed to transplant or flush . Transplanting in flower isn't ideal, but it beats flushing in this instance IMO...and I don't think any amount of flushing will help him at this point.

But I guess we've given him a couple choices though, haven't we?

Toodles

 

[Johnny Rotten]

When you think your nicely tickling the soil from the roots, after gently easing her out of her home, your really ripping off all the fine root hairs that are the workhorse of the plant and that make up the mass or the root system.

Doing that halfway through flowering or even suggesting that IS MORONIC !!

Flushing won't do much either except getting a bit of that magnesium salts out of the medium. seeing how bad he overdid that I'd bet he's been overdoing most of everything, like most noobs do.

Obviously, you shouldn't be giving advice, seeing on how you couldn't see a semi truck of sarcasm barreling down a one way street or give even decent advice to an easy problem. The plant has a LITTLE mag deficiency.... RIP HER OUT!! I'd bet you'd go into surgery with a chainsaw and a hand grenade....

 

[toodles]

Odds are pretty good I was transplanting plants and shrubs before you were born.

Yes, you do lose some root mass when doing as I suggested. And yes, the plant will be set back some, maybe a week or so. However, if transplanted properly into a well made soilmix like LC#2 (like he already has)...the roots will grow quickly into it. I've done it many times with many different types of plants.

As for his plant having a slight Mg deficiency. If, IF this guy has actually done what he said he has done, then I find it impossible that this plant suffers from a Magnesium deficit. How could that be possible given the amount of Mg that he has mixed/poured into that soil?????????? If it is a Mg deficit, then it's some form of lockout/pH problem from all the crap in there. I'd still rather start over than try to flush that crappy soil.

I think there are a lot of people here who screw their grows up by reacting too quickly to some problems they see, or think they see. I've done it. We'll all do it if we're human. My point is IMHO, people start adding this, that, and the other amendment, fix etc. when they see a problem. The next thing they know their grow gets worse. All that stuff they have added very often permanently contaminates their soil to the point it cannot be fixed. I believe that's where this guy is at the moment.

Therefore transplanting has little to lose and everything to gain from my point of view. But it's his plant and his choice.

Good luck

Toodles

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Odds are pretty good I was transplanting plants and shrubs before you were born.

Yes, you do lose some root mass when doing as I suggested. And yes, the plant will be set back some, maybe a week or so. However, if transplanted properly into a well made soilmix like LC#2 (like he already has)...the roots will grow quickly into it. I've done it many times with many different types of plants.

As for his plant having a slight Mg deficiency. If, IF this guy has actually done what he said he has done, then I find it impossible that this plant suffers from a Magnesium deficit. How could that be possible given the amount of Mg that he has mixed/poured into that soil?????????? If it is a Mg deficit, then it's some form of lockout/pH problem from all the crap in there. I'd still rather start over than try to flush that crappy soil.

I think there are a lot of people here who screw their grows up by reacting too quickly to some problems they see, or think they see. I've done it. We'll all do it if we're human. My point is IMHO, people start adding this, that, and the other amendment, fix etc. when they see a problem. The next thing they know their grow gets worse. All that stuff they have added very often permanently contaminates their soil to the point it cannot be fixed. I believe that's where this guy is at the moment.



Toodles

Yo....Toodles. We ain't at the point of growing roots....were WAAAY past that. She will be done by the time the roots grow in and he'll have a 5 gram harvest of leaves.

It seems you confusing your plants. A flowering cannabis plant is not a shrub, or an oak tree, or the other things you were transplanting while was swimming in the fluid. I think you are full of shit saying you have experience transplanting 1/2 done flowering cannabis plants and not seeing a horrible loss of bud.

I do believe you have done this with other plants or with vegetative cannabis plants and you are trying to apply this here....well, your shooting blanks, buddy.

Your best bet is leave the fucker alone, stop trying to add,add,add and live and learn. Get your PH in check, that is your problem, along with the shitty FFOF.....get some litmus strips....SOMETHING !!

Your wandering around in the dark and swinging wildly trying to hit a home run.
Well, your striking out and your not listening to your teammates to turn your helmet around....

 

[toodles]

Maybe so. My experience with weed is limited. I have transplanted 22 days into flower. The plants had nice buds on them....similar to his, maybe bigger. They never showed the slightest sign of transplant stress. His plant has only been in 12/12 for what? 2-3 weeks?

We just disagree....but that's OK right?

I would add that for me that plant is gonna die anyway if he doesn't do something...and very soon. That's the biggest reason for my choice of transplant.

I would also disagree somewhat about what you said about roots growing back.

If he does the old soil removal carefully, the plant will still make new roots. The act of soil disturbance and loss of some of the finer roots will stimulate new growth. From what I can see, the plant is not done stretching, so roots will still grow on that count. He will need to be careful. Just plopping the plant in a new batch of hastily thrown together soil won't cut it. The new soil needs to be "evenly moist" and NOT "wet" to the point where it will clump together. The moisture level in the plant should be the same, or as close as possible. Otherwise the roots will have difficulty getting started. In my experience, roots will quickly grow into the new soil if the soil texture is light and moisture level as I said. It takes a bit of skill and practice, but it can be done.

I agree that an unstressed plant that has finished stretching will not normally make a lot of new rootmass if transplanted late. That's not the case here IMO.

One of the problems I have with flushing his plant is that the plant's leaves are already badly compromised. The plant is going to have an increasingly difficult time photosynthesizing. Flushing the plant will leave the present crappy soil saturated, maybe badly so depending on how well his soil drains. The roots will be deprived of Oxygen for however long it takes the soil to dry sufficiently. My "bet" is that this particular plant won't survive flushing. But I could be wrong.

Assuming the plant survives flushing, then what is it left to grow in?

A soil substrate that has been over limed(even though some will wash out during flushing) and has been OD'd on Epsom Salts and maybe Neem Oil and who knows what else he may have not told us, or forgot to tell us.

While there is risk transplanting, at least the plant will have a chance to finish in a decent mix.

I'm still in favor of transplant

Toodles
Rookie Grower

 

[richyrich]

I had a similar problem in LCs mix. I was using RO water though. What I see a lot of folks looking over here is the fact that there was a magnesium problem to begin with that is why the original poster tried various remedies. So, the additional remedies may have made it worse does not take away the fact that there was already a magnesium problem. So, you can talk all day about what has been done after the fact it is never going to address the original problem.

My LC mix was not cutting it with RO water no matter how many people told me it was ok and even showed their pictures. You have to remember every strain is different. I finally fixed the problem by adding a bit of sensical to my RO water. I bring the ppms up to 250 with the sensical. I feed it two waterings and then the third watering i flush heavily and then add a EWC and mollasses tea to keep my microherd going. Thats how I fixed my problem. In my opinion the LC mix may work for most but not all, mainly because of different strains and the diversity of tap water.

That's my experience. In my opinion, I would flush the heck out of your plants with straight RO water (maybe buy it from one of those machines) and then add a EWC and mollasses tea. You should also take a ppm reading of your tap water and let us know what it is. If it is low you may have to supplement with sensical like I did. If it is super high then you need to invest in a RO filter and follow the routine I am doing. Good luck.





Here are the results in LC mix.

 

[toodles]

This is a good discussion. I don't mind being in the minority viewpoint. I'm learning new stuff every day, even at my advanced age LOL!!

I gotta run do some things, but I'll be back to continue it

Toodles


This is one of my SSH x SSH plants from seed I made this spring. She is finishing week 7 of flower in this pic. She has been under 400W's in ~ 3 gallons of LC#1 with a bit extra perlite. I water with tap water bubbled 24+ usually. The water has been tested and runs 17.2 "hard" on the scale the county uses. mostly due to Ca with some Mg. That translates to about 85 PPM according to the guy I talked to. I use dolomite lime @2Tbls/gallon in LC#1 mix.

 

[jcisnew]

Richyrich seems to have the answer to your problem. I just want to clear up the flushing issue.
If you have a water quality problem, too many minerals and salts in your water supply, you will have a buildup that will require flushing whether you grow with organic or chemical ferts. This can be checked with a EC meter, at the same time you should check for high ph readings in the water.

 

[fuhshietfu]

Thanks guys appreciate all the help.

That pic was actually taken a couple weeks ago (3weeks)my plants are now just about hitting full 5 weeks of flowering. Although it was a good suggestion, I don't feel that great about repotting during this time plus I dont have bigger pots either I dont want to take the chance of transplanting at this stage.

The buds are coming along nicely and the mg problem has progress some as well.

I am going to flush the hell outta of them and give them a fresh feeding of tea and see how things pan out. With 3 weeks to go hopefully they do well.

I guess the problem was I added too much extra crap trying to fix things, next time around I will be more careful.

I will update this thread in a few weeks.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

There you go, bro. Like i said, a good flush and some fresh nutes....just not to much. Every grow i learn something and the day i don't is the day i'll get bored with it. (not smoking though)

Stick with the K.I.S.S Method=keep it simple stoner and your way ahead of the game. Next time you'll know when she's about to lose her mag virginity and become a WHORE.

Good luck!

 

[toodles]

Hey good luck!!

I'm glad your plants are better and won't need transplanting.


jcisnew said:

"If you have a water quality problem, too many minerals and salts in your water supply, you will have a buildup that will require flushing whether you grow with organic or chemical ferts. "

There are a TON of folks on the Organics Forum that would take issue with that statement though....including me.

We'll do it on another thread though

Toodles