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lumen watt and crop

Brus

Member
I use 600 W bulbs philips Son-tplus, they have a lumen output of 90 000 lum. maybe a little higher. I use cool shade reflector so ofcourse i have the bulb very close to the tops. Around 15-20 cm on average.
Now, i have read that for every feet, 28.5 cm the lumen output is reduced by 50 %. Thus on this bulb if i where to have them at 28.5 cm the lumen woudl be 45 000 lummen loss

How is the lumen reduced is it static or exp? if statictly reduced , the lumen loss per cm would be 1578 or 4010 lumen loss per inch.
I use 3 600 what bulbs over an area of 2m2.
So that would give me a total of 270 000 lum to begin with. So given that i have my lamps at 15 cm from tops, that would mean that i get 66330 lum per bulb an total of 198990 lum over my area and 99495 lum per square meter. That for me seem very high .

So my first question is : Is lumen reduced staticly? and if so, is there any roof for how high lumen intensity i should have?

I use the DPS aero 2m2 system from GH. Over that table i have 3 coolshades 600 W. i grow clones, directly from propagation to bloom, that is 24-0 to 12/12. no veg.

I also read that this bulbs have 130 lm/W. l
lumen per watt or luminous flux to radiant flux.

And that is where i get a bit confused, beacuse i have hard alot a talk abut wattage and crop , 1 gram per watt etc.
When i read about lumen i got the impression that radiant flux is the import<nt thing. Since it meaasure the amount of power in the light that is emited from the source? And watt refers to the amount of energy that are required to run the lamp is it not?. and since the plants are bound by the amount of ligth they get, not electric power should not Lm/W be what relfect to size of the crop ? since watt does not in any way refer to the amount of light being produced?


So if this is true then how is the lm/w or radiant flux affected by distance

I understand that i dont have to little light in my room, i am however a little concerned that i use more than the plants can absorb?, the first 3-4 days i always keeep the lamps 60 cm from top in order to avoid light burn. vein em off
 
P

purpledomgoddes

keep it simple/solid...

600's should be ~2-6" (5-15cm) away from canopy.

they can handle the higher ambient temps. eliminate strains that cannot handle the close proximity.

you may find that plants will acclimate to 85-95*f temps and come to like it... after all, in nature, plants grow in valleys/high deserts that normally reach 100+*f.

hope this helps.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108993
lighting conversion data

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108292
we
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108292really need a better 3d light saturation standard
 

tmu

Member
Just make sure they're getting fed properly! Use aero or hydro. You can go up to and even over 100f with hydro, but need to run Co2 up around 4000ppm. Keep the humidity in check also and you won't believe you're eyes!
 

grower1977

Member
1 ft= 30,5cm not 28,5cm

have you ever seen this cervantes picture, with the loss of lumens?

picture.php
http://img119.imageshack.us/i/400metallumenspa7.jpg/
 

Gunnarguchi

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
1 ft= 30,5cm not 28,5cm

have you ever seen this cervantes picture, with the loss of lumens?

picture.php
http://img119.imageshack.us/i/400metallumenspa7.jpg/

i agree on the lumen loss in distance but the actual figures look way to low to start out with, even for an mh but its good for illustration

i measure one of my 400 watt lamps once with an hps in it
lamps ballast was old and a used bulb also but i had like 100 000 lux at 20 cm with an old used Phillip bulbs in some old Phillip lamp with a ballast that was probably like 10 years old

regarding hoods
yes aircooled can be placed closer but it requires a lot more work and money for tubing, powerfull fans etc
just go with an adjust a wing and a light mover
less work and less money spend
a friend of mine runs his 600 watt hps 10 cm above canopy's without burn
using a top class hood like the AAW with a lightmover also has the advantage that you can cover like 2x the amount of plants using the same wattage
 
Damn, I figured it was an Adjustawing or something with a diffuser. I guess it's been awhile since I've run 600s -- still, 2 inches? With a reflector? Horizontally? Can you do that even without CO2?

I've never been able to get 600s that close without a diffuser before my girls start bleaching :petting:.
 
P

purpledomgoddes

Purple -- What kind of reflector does one use to keep 600s 2" from the canopy?
That is really close.

FreezerBoy said:
Most likely air cooled.

Philosophelon said:
Damn, I figured it was an Adjustawing or something with a diffuser. I guess it's been awhile since I've run 600s -- still, 2 inches? With a reflector? Horizontally? Can you do that even without CO2?

I've never been able to get 600s that close without a diffuser before my girls start bleaching :petting:.

run
1-1k sunmaster warm (hung @ vertical center of plant)
1-1k eye conversion (hung @ vertical center of plant)
1-400 sm warm (hung in center of + higher than 1k's)
2-dual 40w fixtures 1 40w uvb+1 daylight floro (hung directly over tops of plants)
2-red party lights
2-purple party lights

all hid's hung bare bulb, vertically.

no cool tubes. no reflectors. no hoods.

lots of air circulation...
sealed area.
fan in center, below plants/above ground, blowing up.
oscillating fans.
air purifier.
ac.

by 2"-6" away from bare bulb 1k's, mean that closest leaf/plant part is ~2"-6" away.

really, just make sure is not touching. this is how do it/judge proximity...

when flower initiated, plants already 6-12", so cusp of maturity.
1st day, began @ ~6" away from 1k's, (uvb+party lights on over head).
by day 3 of flower, are moved to about 1". depending on if/when/how fan leaves are burned/bleached, are moved back accordingly, never more than will keep closest leaves @ 2"-6" away from bare bulb 1k.

want par saturation. sunlight is 450 par watts. though sun master warm deleuxe claims 345 par watts on box, closest can get to sun's spectral variation is ~ 150-250 par watts. or, 5,000 lumens/50,000 lux @ 1 foot away; which is the test range for a 1k.

leaves generally reach saturation @ 300 par watts, so idea is to breed hardiest plants that can tolerate maximal-efficiency-plant-conditions (in imaginary poster purpledomgoddes' imaginary garden). can get close to saturation w/ the light regime mix of the ^ listed lights, and manipulating environment @ certain times during the life cycle of the plant.

some plants can get closer than others.
some will get leaves curling up.
some will grow into the light further.
regardless of preference of plant, they are forced to be no less than 2" away. this means that the closest leaf/plant part/flower is less than a finger's length from the bulb.

they get acclimated to the proximity... or are culled from garden. only desire strongest that can handle environment.

the main thing is air circulation, i.e.g., the ability of the plant to respire+transpire during high heat.

run high temps on purpose anyway, @ 78-88*f day+night. if the build up gets to 100+, they are already adapted to it. dont coddle the plants; they have been cultivated in high deserts/mountainous regions/equatorial regions for millenia.

they will not topple over and die if temps exceed 90*f... and if they do, they do not belong in this imaginary garden. it is imaginary, after all...:smile:

purpose is higher temps=faster+greater rate of metabolism. they will drink more water, transpire more, and ultimately bear sweeter fruit (in this fictitious garden. each garden is specific to its own goals/demands). provide adequate dehumidification and they will love the higher temps, complete w/ cheap fermentation for c02.

then apply 60-68*f temps @ 1 hr before/after lights on/off. they think @ that they had long cold night, but high temps have already metabolized sugars+photosynthsized more.

key point for plant in measuring diff, or difference between day and night temps, is @ conclusion of genetically hard-wired photoperiod cut-off/critical stage. this is period plant measures environmentals; icluding ambient temps, actual leaf temps, root temps, vapor pressure deficit, etc.

dawn seems to be point of time where most influence can be had upon plant. also, dusk time may be time to place enhanced input(s) to environment/plant.

positive diff = day temp warmer than night temp

negative diff = day temp cooler than night temp

zero diff = day temp equal to night temp


hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=2386242&postcount=87
*for thread starter brus. relevant definitions re your question
 

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