Luigi Mangione
- Thread starter Zeez
- Start date
2020 Congressional Budget Office analysis claims $650 billion to $1.5 trillion in savings over a 10 year period.
2018 Mercatus study suggests $2 trillion in savings over a 10 year period.
2018 UMass Amherst study said $5 trillion over 10 years
2019 RAND Corp study said $3 trillion over 10 years
and these are all older numbers as the cost of healthcare rises $5 billion per year (i think? been a minute since i've looked this shit up) so theoretically we could be talking more than these estimates.
so yeah. universal coverage, reduced spending and waste, as well as lower drug costs, etc. while not paying a dime to private insurers any more.
he's not bright enough to be a libertarian, he's a contrarian. or a "sovereign".
that's exactly what i told him. he's still here, and still mad because he can't game the system & not pay taxes for the benefits he gets from OTHER peoples taxes.
In the instance of the public good, no there isn't. You have people who understand the social contract and that a robust welfare system for it's citizens is a necessary public good, vs those that don't. Those that don't may have all sorts of various reasons but in the end they have sided with the richest people who don't even need the services to begin with.
These things are wrong yes but they are VIOLENTLY reinforced by society to be seen as wrong. If there were no repurcussion for robbing murdering and raping, a lot more people would do it.
The threat of the state is the only thing keeping this together. Whether you like it or not, it exists currently as a necessary evil.
But they aren't.
Poor people are not seen as equal as rich people. Homeless people are not seen as humans most of the time. Then there's the institutionalized racism of this country... lol.
Once again, anyone can make this argument about ANYTHING. Which makes this a very dumb argument that goes absolutely nowhere.
Explain how this is extrapolated into, say, health insurance. What party is going to agree to take on the debts and bills of someone who is currently dying and has amassed a, idk, million dollar hospital bill? They can't work, they can't function on their own, etc.
If no party agrees to take this person on, they simply die. Painful, in debt, stressed the fuck out that maybe their debt will be saddled to their children?
That's the voluntary solution?
"government schools"
voluntarists are a type of libertarian/anarcho capitalist. their ideology will lead to neo-feudalism.he's not bright enough to be a libertarian, he's a contrarian. or a "sovereign".
that's exactly what i told him. he's still here, and still mad because he can't game the system & not pay taxes for the benefits he gets from OTHER peoples taxes.
Captain Red Eye
Active member
People who have their consent violated that are otherwise peaceful are not equal to you in your eyes. You can't deny that. Just admit it's an inseparable part of your plan for how others MUST do things.
Do you have the honesty to admit your ideas will be mandatory ?
Equality means you get to run your life, others get to run theirs. Cooperation can happen, as long as all parties consent to the methods.
You are not advocating that, stop bringing up "poor people" and racism as if that has anything to do with you forcing your ideas on other people whether they like it or not.
I'm well aware the present healthcare model is fucked up and prices are too high. You never offered an alternative solution which allows people to make free choices. There's your gun again.
freedom has limits, unless you live on an island by yourself, with nature providing all you need. good luck, write when you find it. just write a note, put it in a bottle, and toss it into the ocean. there won't be a mailman coming by...
Captain Red Eye
Active member
he's not bright enough to be a libertarian, he's a contrarian. or a "sovereign".
that's exactly what i told him. he's still here, and still mad because he can't game the system & not pay taxes for the benefits he gets from OTHER peoples taxes.
YOUR HOPEFUL QUOTE FROM ANOTHER THREAD BELOW
the left/liberals want people to be ALLOWED to live their lives with minimal interference and maximum freedom. they do not FORCE right wing/religious people to live like that
How are left /liberals behaving in the ways you claimed above when they demand people accept their ideas on how to rectify crony capitalist greed regarding healthcare costs and associated fuckery?
Also, I'm a Voluntaryist, meaning I sincerely try to respect and honor your right to be free from coercion.
I wish you felt the same. How we proceed from here is up to you, I'm willing to be civil if you are. Sorry for busting your balls about the rope and ski mask thing...but still you really have that in your trunk?
But we've seen what the lobbies that own and control our Gov do when someone so much as spells those words in potential/proposed legislation, let alone speaking those words aloud on the House or Senate floors.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." (JFK) (*And one of the most appropriate and well-informed statements the man ever made).
Captain Red Eye
Active member
freedom has limits, unless you live on an island by yourself, with nature providing all you need. good luck, write when you find it. just write a note, put it in a bottle, and toss it into the ocean. there won't be a mailman coming by...
Consent violations have their limits too. Liberals who correctly identify crony capitalist healthcare problems do not then get a right to create a plan which will violate the consent of any disinterested person that is otherwise peaceful. Ask, persuade = good. Demand, force = bad.
That is how we get to peace.
VinScentVanGro
Member
I might be able to get behind something like that. Once Elon and Bernie find all the excess spending. And RFK gets all the poisonous food banned. We would have to apply a sliding scale to the score you get on a mandatory health exam. But sounds doable.
Elon is a government contracted oligarch who's businesses depend on keeping your health care tied to employment as well as using it as a recruiting incentive for the military. Highly doubtful. Even if he does have this sudden epiphany, no republican as well as probably 75% of the democratic party will not sign off on it.
eastcoastjoe
Well-known member
He should had used his health insurance for mental health treatment
GenghisKush
Well-known member
alright
that's not a real thing
there's a similar oped, but no article with that headline was published on Dec 12.
similar article: https://archive.ph/zCec3
how I (think I) know that there was never a NYT article with that text today (it would be listed here): https://twitter.com/nyt_diff
