Lucas Formula Defined/Explained

[Deft]

Yea I'm wondering about non RO water also, my tap is 80ppm (x500 ec), seems close enough to RO I guess.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

my well water before treatment is 60-80 PPM. I just started using Lucas so I will see how it works.

I hear alot of people use Lucas and I hear mention of some needing Cal-Mag when using RO so I think alot dont use RO

 

[Pirate]

I started using the Lucas Formula with tap water 2 weeks ago and will never go back.

I have never seen such healthy growth before. Its amazingly simple and my plants love it. I was using the GH feeding program with all the additives and crap. I elliminated all the additives and the bottle of grow as suggested.I see now it is NOT NEEDED. I had fantastic results with 2 days of switching over.

My water comes out of the tap at 140PPM and 6.8 PH. After I mix the Lucas formula I need ZERO PH adjustment. It hits 6.0 / 6.1 all by itself.

Since my tap water starts at 140 PPM I use that as my deduction when calculating the formula. (I.E......1300 - 140 / 1300 x 8 x 20)

Another thing I should mention. Before I using the Lucas Method, my PPMs would rise as water was drank up. Now.........My PPms actually go down as water is drank up, telling me my plants are actually getting the correct amount of nutrient. I bet I was getting a slight nutrient lockout before but never knew it. If you would have asked me if my plants were healthy before.........I would have said yes. If you ask me if they are even better with the lucas formula I would say HELL YES !!

I am a convert for sure.

Pirate

 

[Jack Pot]

if anyone, or more less, everyone, would just google ''ask lucas'', it takes you straight to the mouth of babes.

i recently finished reading, in depth, the entire thread, and let me tell you, it changes everything. why? because it works. my first reaction to 8-16 ratio, even when starting out, is that would burn my plants. negative. 8-16 doesnt have enough nitrogen to burn plants, the formula is a perfect balance for growng a wide variety of strains. any strain, for that matter, because it formulated to have all the nutrients, macro and mico, at any given time the plant or strain may need. truly that simple.

still doubt me? lucas still post on that ''ask lucas'' thread. and he himself states that only use 5-10 for low light, it is not a veg formula at all. use 8-16, all the time. no flushing, no additives, no guesswork.

and if you know anything, its that plants dont use nutrients for growing, only for TRANSPORTING what they need to grow, carbon, oxygen, etc.

I think you´ve got something here.

Mostly because I see no point in talking about Lucas "ratio" while talking about 5-10 or 8-16... the ratio is the same 1-2 on both you see. So he must mean strength with 8-16, not ratio, probably better forget the EC meters for this.

If it was " a strain thing" , he would talk about 1-2 ratio only. 8-16 is strength.

I´ll set up a test bubbler bucket one of these days, just to see with a plant or two by myself. I have used "half strength Lucas" for a couple of grows, stretch too much and kinda starving looking plants... thay are ok but not as good as many plants I see around here.

How are you "full strength people" topping up? Water only for how long? When to change? This is too easy for our complicated minds to understand I think.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Before I using the Lucas Method, my PPMs would rise as water was drank up. Now.........My PPms actually go down as water is drank up, telling me my plants are actually getting the correct amount of nutrient.

PPM rises=nutes too rich. PPM drops=nutes too lean. PPM stays flat=nutes "correct" . Note pH moves opposite to PPM. I use the quotes because I had a plant read flat for weeks and assumed that meant it was happy. Wide spread yellowing from a pH induced Mag lockout was my reward. I now avoid "correct" in favor of a mild swing.

 

[hehateme19]

I think you´ve got something here.

Mostly because I see no point in talking about Lucas "ratio" while talking about 5-10 or 8-16... the ratio is the same 1-2 on both you see. So he must mean strength with 8-16, not ratio, probably better forget the EC meters for this.

If it was " a strain thing" , he would talk about 1-2 ratio only. 8-16 is strength.

I´ll set up a test bubbler bucket one of these days, just to see with a plant or two by myself. I have used "half strength Lucas" for a couple of grows, stretch too much and kinda starving looking plants... thay are ok but not as good as many plants I see around here.

How are you "full strength people" topping up? Water only for how long? When to change? This is too easy for our complicated minds to understand I think.

I personally go by the "add back" scenario of once Ive added back water equal to the res size I do a switch. Now mind you that I also use the add back formula for raising ppms. So I add the water and then use the add back formula to get ppm range. And once I have added back water to equal the res size the next time a do a complete change (some say this is overkill, but the nutes are not that expensive...buy the 6 gallon jugs and you wont worry for a while)

Not sure if someone posted this already or not...But here it is again. Read this if you want to know..........

http://cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

 

[Pirate]

OK. I've been using this formula for several weeks now and WOW. I'm still amazed how healthy my garden is. Its freakin amazing.

Not sure if someone posted this already or not...But here it is again. Read this if you want to know.......... http://cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

That has got to be the single most informative thread I have ever read on cannabis, by far. Thanks for posting it.

Pirate

 

[Deft]

Yea I am glad I started out my first hydro grow (just flipped today to flower) with the 0-8-16 formula (at least that ratio), I just started using pure floranova grow and they seem to love it.

That one big fan leaf is way larger than my hand.



The stems/branches are damn thick too!

 

[eidanyosoy]

Why "Grow"

Why "Grow"

Yea I am glad I started out my first hydro grow (just flipped today to flower) with the 0-8-16 formula (at least that ratio), I just started using pure floranova grow and they seem to love it.

I could just be confused by your post, I am high and it happens lol.

Why did you buy the grow formula, thats a hefty waste of money man. Only The Flora Nova Bloom is needed, in veg as well as flower. Good luck either way, things have a way of working out.

 

[toohighmf]

I'm not going over to CW but if I'm reading correctly, 8/16 is 8ml/gallon of micro and 16ml/gal. Correct? Also... TDS & PH should stay consistant throughout without flushing at all, and no R/0 replenishing supplement like calmg? My 2 main strains I grow are extreme mag pigs. When I run a res without calmg, I get the typical mag defic in a day or 2 without it.. Anyone getting better quality by adding humic or fulvic, L-Amino's, or anything?
I am running 2 res' and want to conduct a test. 1 part floranova with some basic adds and keep the ppm and ph constantly the same throughout, the run DM Gold, with the same stuff only allowing my PH fluxuate to .5 points Does anyone recommend a l-amino complex without any PK boost?

I understand this isn't the real Lucas formula, but I don't see how simple adds that don't play with LF's NPK much could do anything but unlocking the actual crappy EDTA style chelates to their potential. With me still?

 

[toohighmf]

let me rephrase: As a disgruntled EX AN rep, I am trying to achieve the same quality of finished product. I found high concentrations of both humic/fulvic and bid bud/overdrive gave me the most consistant yeilds with "globs" of amber goodness all over the buds.. I grew with pretty basic ferts and did pretty well, but When I spiced it up a bit, their was big difference using some additives that made sense to me. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what they may add to the LF or FN base?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Only The Flora Nova Bloom is needed, in veg as well as flower.

I've found that the FloraNova Grow is much MUCH better for veg than the Lucas Formula. Looking back over what Lucas recommends I really can't find anywhere that he recommends his formula for vegging. All I can find are references to his NOT recommending a specific veg formula until recently. (FNG at about 3 to 7 ml/gal)

 

[PetFlora]

You know it Haps.......

Running LF myself. Love it, preach it.
Cal mag does indeed depend on strain.
My SK#1 doesn't need it.
My Princess Diesel wants a little bit.


0-5-15 is not veg formula!
Lucas recommends the 0-5-15 for low intensity light grows. Like Flouros and low-level intensity CFL grows.

The only time I switch from the 0-8-16 formula is I use 1/3rd str when feeding seedlings. Even then they jump up to eating full str quickly.

Personally I'm planning future hydro grows around The FloraNova Bloom at 8ml per gallon.

Lucas does not recommend any additives of any kind when using the Lucas Formula. He notes that others have mentioned Cal/Mag deficiencies when running RO water but that he's never run across it himself.

The Lucas Formula DOES have a enough nitrogen in it to create some wonderful algae blooms. Please be sure to thoroughly light-proof and insulate your res.

Top off with pH adjusted water? Not if you're using RO water.

Where did you get this eidanyosoy??????????

You are misinformed about RO water. It does not have one pH. Depends on where it came from initially. I check mine and it can be anywhere from 6-8! I live in S Florida

 

[Hydro-Soil]

You are misinformed about RO water. It does not have one pH. Depends on where it came from initially.

Uhhhh..... I have no idea where you go the idea that I think RO only has one pH range. I was under the impression that the discussion was about pre-pH'ing water before adding it to your tank.

It's completely unnecessary and you'll get better results if you don't. Let the res adjust for a while after you've topped off, check the pH and then adjust it if necessary. I add water every day and only need to add pH down about once a week, sometimes less.

 

[cashmunny]

What's so difficult about just following the directions on the bottles? They give mix ratios for various stages of plant development and I would think the GH company knows more about how to use their products effectively than anyone else.

Besides by using a two part formula rather than a three part formula you give up being able to completely control all three parameters in the N:K ratio. It's like trying to describe a point in 3 dimensional space with two coordinates.

 

[fatigues]

I would think the GH company knows more about how to use their products effectively than anyone else.

I think that GH is less concerned about how effectively expert growers are able to use their product line and is instead more concerned about their own revenue and bottom line. Perhaps you have a different view of the priorities of business than my own experience in such matters provides to me.

In any event, the Lucas Ratio is tried, true, proven and beyond doubt.

Importantly, from an ease of use standpoint, Lucas Ratio assumes capabilities in its users which GH's product line does not assume, namely:

(1) that the grower is using RO water and;
(2) that the grower has the ability to make EC/TDS readings.

GH's products assume the grower is using tap water, not RO water.

Moreover, GHs reservoir dump and refill method is premised upon the user being unable to make regular accurate EC/TDS readings.

Accordingly, GH's standard instructions call for a complete reservoir change of all nutes on a fixed schedule so that the grower is frequently starting from a blank slate so that the TDS does not get out of hand.

The fact that such a reservoir dump-to-waste happens to consume far more of GH's products than would otherwise be necessary and thereby leads to increased sales of their products is an inherent "feature" of their nutrient feed schedule.

Besides by using a two part formula rather than a three part formula you give up being able to completely control all three parameters in the N:K ratio. It's like trying to describe a point in 3 dimensional space with two coordinates.

No, it isn't like that in the least. This is just wrong. But as an example of rhetoric, it has a superficial appeal to it that has a certain....what's the word?

Ah yes: "truthiness".

 

[Hydro-Soil]

What's so difficult about just following the directions on the bottles? They give mix ratios for various stages of plant development and I would think the GH company knows more about how to use their products effectively than anyone else.

Ummmm because cannabis is a LIGHT feeding plant with slightly different requirements than 99% of the plants GH is formulated for. You can use the labels but you'd best start with 1/4 of the amount listed and work your way up.

Besides by using a two part formula rather than a three part formula you give up being able to completely control all three parameters in the N:K ratio. It's like trying to describe a point in 3 dimensional space with two coordinates.

Unless you have a lot of experience with nutrients..... skipping the "Grow" formula and mixing the way Lucas has pointed out allows 90% of the noobs out there to grow awesome plants the first time, every time.


There are tried and true reasons why I don't go around telling people to read the label and follow the directions there. Hell, GH suggests 10ml/gal of FloraNova Bloom and that's ridiculously too much for nearly every indoor Cannabis gardener. Oh, did you know that FNB is almost exactly the same mix as the Lucas Formula? GH DID learn, I guess.

 

[hazy]

When I use nutes at the label directions(i grow in coco/perlite), Eventually the leaves start to get that twisted look, that indicates that the pH in the medium is too low from nute concentration, and is taking up excessive nutrients, esp phosphorous, causing toxicity, which in turn will start to restrict other nutes, etc.

When I started backing off the amounts, more in relation to the LF(i don't have gh nutes now, but i get close) the leaves stay flat, no deficiencies.

 

[cashmunny]

GH bottles list 10 ml of bloom for "Aggressive Bloom" in a simple drain to waste setup, in which case they recommend 0-5-10 ml of G-M-B. Which is the same ratio as Lucas. Sounds like Lucas just read the bottle.

For recirculating they list 0-10-20 ml during aggressive bloom. That's 772 ppm versus 616 ppm for the Lucas 8-16. Neither sounds that hot. I thought people fairly routinely run over 1000 ppm.

I use the simple drain to waste formulas. They work for me, but I like to make things complicated. If you can't mix a three part formula according to directions you probably shouldn't be using electricity.

 

[greenhornets]

bump