Lower leaves dying, Not completely sure...

[unlearning]

Not sure exactly what is going on. My guesses are Magnesium Def and Over-feed of Nitrogen. /shrug

Specs:
Medium: 50/50 Vermiculite/Perlite
Feed: 6ml/2ml PBP Bloom/CalMag+, roughly 400ppm
PH: 5.8, Runoff 6.3
RO Water


Been feeding that mix for roughly 1 week, Before I was around 300ppm without CalMag+ for 1 week and 1 single feeding of 350ppm after they first popped which burnt 2 of them a little but they recovered quickly after I adjusted a PH issue and flushed the medium and waited a tad before next feed. Plants are about 3 1/2 weeks old atm.

First "group" of issues.(magnesium def?):

Early:


Next:


Last:


Second "group". (proposed over-feed of Nitrogen or general Nute Burn?):

Early:


Next:


Eventual. (I have ripped off most of the fully dead sections on this leaf however you can get the idea by seeing all the dead spots inbetween veins)



Lastly I have a random odd pic that I couldnt really Catagorize as either of the 2 above groups. You can see that on the Middle Leaf and the adjacent leaf just to the right there are some wholes in the leaf that did not come with any sort of defiency or burn before hand.. As they got older they just "grew into" or around these 2 holes:



Thanks in advance guys!
Un

Edit: <-----Horrible speller I think I need a secretary

 

[Guest]

first thing id say to do is to next time use colored bottles for your plants...roots dont like th elight and will get alge and mold on them.

as for the rust spots all over...i have the same prob but im in soil. prolly a ph issu.

 

[unlearning]

first thing id say to do is to next time use colored bottles for your plants...roots dont like th elight and will get alge and mold on them.

Thanks for the advice man, I just figured for now I'm using weak floros and they should be far enough away from the lights to not be absorbing anything drastically to the point where it would cause any harm. I will be throwing them into a DWC tub within the next few weeks after more of the plants show their pre-flowers. I will keep an eye on them and keep my mind on the advice when I pick the two plants to use for mums.

Keep em comming,
Un

 

[Blackvelvet]

Runoff ph is slightly high for soilless mixes. You don't want to get over 6.2 with 5.8 being better.

Which pbp bloom are you using...hydro or soil formula? I can give you some rates for this. Why are you not using the grow formula now anyway?

I agree you look like you got mag def. You can get necrotic spots/burnt tips and margins with mag def although the green veins with a yellow leaf are the primary symptom. Try a gentle dose of epsom salts once like 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. (This will not harm the plants even if wrong ) This would give you about 60 ppm mag. The cal mag plus at 2 ml per gallon is only adding 7 ppm mag... Probably not enough to overcome a deficiency especially with continued applications of potassium.

I don't think your really in bad shape. Just need some minor adjustments to your fert plan and a slightly lower ph.

 

[unlearning]

Yeah brosef,

After the first problem I had after the first week I adjusted the PH back to 5.8 and since the strems grew out think and harder REAL fast and growth spurted a bit. I'm
gonna go read the sick plant guide to see if an overdose of a certian nutrient leads to Mg def.

I'm using Hydro Bloom formula, and using it in accordance with the LUCAS formula. Remember that the bloom is 2.5 N and a tad thicker(960ml oer 1020 grams) than the Calmag+ (960ml to 960 grams). CalMag+ has 2.0N meaning in total 4.5 variable N.

I've done the calulations you first turned me onto with the 4:2:1 ratio and it seemed a solid 3:1 ratio PBP BH/CM+ followed the ratio as closely as possible.

The reason I first thought to much N was that the PBP "formula" so-to-say has alot of N to start with at 15/5 i don't remember the exact number but I think it was around 150-200 where lucas recommends 100 in the (100-100-200 LUCAS). I do realize they use more N in veg and I followed the charts on:

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm

followed that quite closely for reference, but still came out with this problemo. I also noticed some curling down of leaf tips even when they had water, which adheres to the "claw" look mynamestitch referred to in his guide.

After I check to see what excess cause Mg Def I'll redo some math to see if I can cut down on the PBP BH and a tad more CM+ to make up for the possible Mg Def and the lost N.

Would still be greatful if you did your math thing to for cross reference!! Thanks Man!

Laters,
Un

 

[Blackvelvet]

Your underfeeding

Your underfeeding

Would still be greatful if you did your math thing to for cross reference!! Thanks Man!

I came up with this for flower....

11.36 ml per gallon pbp bloom hydro + 3.86 ml cal mag plus
n 100
p 27
k 131
ca 65
mg 29

2 1/4 teaspoons pbp bloom for hydro + 3/4 teaspoon cal mag plus per gallon of water. (3.8L)

This gives you 100 ppm nitrogen. If your in veg still with these small plants, this would also be good. When you want to kick in the turbo on these babys, bump n up to 150 ppm. Drop your fert water down to 5.6 after mixing. Continue using this ph till it gets below 6.2 in your runoff. I bet the perlite is causing the ph to rise. It can have a ph over 7 to start. You might want to apply the small dose of epsom once and then resume the 4:2:1 ratio. The lucas formula is designed for flowering plants. The above recipe almost is like Johnsons nutrient formula but has less calcium. Compare. See page 11. http://vric.ucdavis.edu/veginfo/topics/hydroponics/hydroponics.pdf

Make sure when you water/fert, you get some runoff. This will prevent excess salt buildup.

There is some confusion about net weights on the bottle so your calculations may vary slightly but not enough to be of concern. The lucas sticky in the hydro section is way off and wrong for pbp.

 

[unlearning]

I just mixed up a test batch of the 11.3/3.8 and it came out roughly 950ppm

You sure thats not to strong for them?

 

[Blackvelvet]

That's right.

Everytime you fert/water make sure you get some runoff. For this to work right, you need at least 20 watts per square foot florescent only a few inches from the tops. I suggest hid to be most effective. Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

 

[unlearning]

1.8 sft,
66w

=)

 

[Blackvelvet]

Cool. Make sure the lights are only a few inches from the tops.

 

[unlearning]

They are and will continue to stay the same

Old pic but you get the point


I actually let one of the guys keep growing and he got some slight light burns from from floros. And notice I said "he", heh so it don't really matter.