Losing too many fan leaves

[Guest 18340]

I posted this ? in Mandalaseeds forum but the problem still exists so i thought i'd try here.
I have 6 Hashberry females 29 days into flower, vegged for 5 weeks from seed. I have them in 5 gal buckets, in soil. (see pic of soil)
The whole time they were vegging I only gave them ph'd (6.5) tap water, no nutes whatsoever. (I used ph down for 3 weeks then switched to white vinegar) Ive used my tap for all my grows and this is first time with this strain/problem.My temps are in the 90's but Mandala strains are heat resistant. Humidity is never an issue.
This problem started almost as soon as i started flowering them. I didnt feed them any nutes until 15 days into flower, which is why i thought the fan leaves were falling off because the plants were starved. (Maybe they are ) I have since been feeding them 1/4 strength GH flora nutes.
Im at the end of my rope here, the buds are small and no trichs' whatsoever and i feel i may have to abort this grow.
I took as many pics as i could and ill take more if it means a proper diagnosis. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They all look like this:














Soil:


Soil ingredients:

 

[MynameStitch]

Ok first off the temps have got to go; you need to get them lower than 80 F but no colder than 70
2nd you need to feed your plants man they are very hungry. They used up all the nutrients in the soil and now you have to feed them weekly. I would also get them out of the pot and into a bigger size pot.

You got deficiencies out the A$$........ potasium/calicum/nitrogen issues; what you are seeing now is necrotic tissue that died after the plant sucked that area dry.

 

[Guest 18340]

Was hoping you'd stop in 'stitch. I have them in 5 gallon buckets already, i need bigger?
Speaking in terms of Gh flora nutes, how much and how often do you recommend i feed?
Yeah, the heat sure aint helping but Im in Florida so i gotta wait until nature calms down.
I really appreciate your help bro, Thank you

 

[Flowerman]

This is just my opinion, but it doesn't look to me as if it's from a lack of food, but other things. It looks like multiple issues, one the medium, it's hard to control how much food they are getting with that type of medium(Chemical nute balls), it seems they are getting way too much(Hot spots), then when you added more to the situation with the higher temps, viola. Also mediums that come with this 9 months of feeding, like to add tons of wood chips, nute balls, and they also hold too much water, and I personally find this not the best stuff to grow canna with. With all of these issues, this can cause an unbalance in the nutrient uptake, which will lead to stunted growth, leaves curling/drying and what not. If it was from not enough nutes, the leaves would gradually turn a pale yellow, then brown, the entire leaf gradually, not like what you got going on.

 

[Guest 18340]

Now Im confused. What you say, Flowerman, does make sense, and Ive been wondering about the soil, but the soil came highly recommeded by a few growers here.
Mind you, this problem did not start happening until i flowered them. During the veg cycle the plants were the healthiest, bushiest, greenest things i ever saw!

This is about 4 weeks vegged

 

[10k]

Please indicate, step by step, how you are mixing the three parts of the gh flora nutes, and in what order ? (include the ratio of grow, micros, bloom)
How are you measuring the e.c. ?

If you did not start by first mixing the micros in the water, followed by the grow, then bloom it would explain alot of whats happening here. When people mix the micros in after they've already added one or both of the other two components...the result is a nute solution which is damaged, somewhat toxic, and has several ingredients locked out and unavailable to the plants.

 

[Flowerman]

Just wanted to say, what's up 10K, hopefully life has been treating you well. I still miss the old home front.
But evlme2, were you just using the GH flora nutes, and not the grow and micro? As 10K said, that could be an issue as well, especially if the mixing isn't done correctly, that's if you add them together before the water and what order, and as he said about the amount. Damn, I'm repeating what was already said, definitely need to go smoke a little myself.
But also, those nutes that come in the medium bag,(Sometimes green little balls, or clear little balls) they don't really start to work till after they start to dissolve, and that can sometimes really take about 4 weeks to kick into high gear, and then they just release until a point it can become toxic, especially if you're adding nutes and don't take into account the time nutrients of the bag, which are a chemical fert as well. The drainage isn't all that great either with it, and those two things can lead to problems and nutrient uptake problems as well. I do use that stuff for my flowers outdoors though, and for that it works great. But when you find a board in it the size of your arm, you got to start wondering, WTH?

 

[big mike]

If you did not start by first mixing the micros in the water, followed by the grow, then bloom it would explain alot of whats happening here. When people mix the micros in after they've already added one or both of the other two components...the result is a nute solution which is damaged, somewhat toxic, and has several ingredients locked out and unavailable to the plants.

your saying.. first add the micro, mix the slution.. then add grow and bloom, if not, it can be toxic?

what if i add everything at once then stir it all up?

thats interesting to know....

 

[MynameStitch]

no you do not need to change there pots 5 gallon is just fine for the size.

did you dilute your soil mixture by any chance? Or add anything with it?
DID YOu use this soil when they went right into flowering?

 

[10k]

Hi flowerman... great to see you lurking around these parts.

Big Mike wrote...
your saying.. first add the micro, mix the slution.. then add grow and bloom, if not, it can be toxic?

Yup Mike. The micros need to be well mixed into the water BEFORE either of the others are added into the water. Mix the water thoroughly before adding the other gh flora parts to the water too, of course. I'm no chemist, but if I remember correctly it's something in the concentrated gh flora series micros that can't tolerate coming into contact with the other gh chems (concentrated or even if the others are already in the water)... This chemical reaction between the micros and the other two gh parts does not happen if the micros are already thoroughly diluted and mixed into the water FIRST.

BigMike continued...
what if i add everything at once then stir it all up?

If you were to measure all your gh flora series concentrates into one concentrated measuring cup before pouring them into the water, the chemical reaction is amplified to disasterous levels. The lockouts are horrible and the plants suffer greatly.

Levitikuz wrote...
10K im NOT tryin to argue with you!!! OK? Please no arguments!!!

Lev, I'm not here to argue with anyone either, unless they're doing something that will cause harm to our beloved plants. That is why I mod this forum btw. Mixing the micros in FIRST is a hard fact, but many stoners are known for being forgetful or just flat out not willing to take directions from others.

Lev continues...
In my GH Nute experience i use the Lucas formula and i have always added GH Bloom nutes first for some reason then GH Micro and my plants have never had any problems...Please no arguments...im just stating my experiences

Something in the micros concentrated form collides with elements in the grow and/or bloom as it first comes into contact with it, causing some of the ingedients to "fall out" of the mixed solution. You can even 'see' the collision happening with your own two eyes Lev, just go ahead and mix the bloom concentrate into your water first, after thorough mixing allow it the mixed water to settle down so its no longer moving...then take your measured amount of micros concentrate and pour it in the solution. What you will see (very slightly) is a kind of milky, cloudy or smoky looking reaction happening in the water at the point of contact with the mixed solution. This chemical reaction damages the mixed solution and makes it undesirable to the point of locking out some of the nutes. You've been very lucky if your plants havent shown any defs, but I'm betting your plants would have been much more happy, getting everything the chemists at gen hydro intended, if you were mixing your nute solution the correct way...micros first !

(for clarity, see below general hydroponics flora series mixing instructions)

HOW DO I MIX THE FLORA SERIES?

Answer: Always start with a reservoir filled with water, then add the concentrated nutrients one by one.

Never mix the nutrients together in their concentrated form, as this will cause nutrient "lock-out" making some minerals unavailable. It is best to begin by adding FloraMicro, stirring well, and then adding FloraGro and/or FloraBloom. If both FloraGro and FloraBloom are used, add one, stir well, then add the other.

hth,
10k

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey 10k you got a link where I can read about that info?

 

[10k]

A link to read about it stitch ? You're doing it right now my friend.
But you might begin by looking at www.generalhydroponics.com

 

[Flowerman]

Here's the label on the bottle as well for anyone curious, hope it helps.

 

[MynameStitch]

A link to read about it stitch ? You're doing it right now my friend.
But you might begin by looking at www.generalhydroponics.com

Thank you, ya great post btw 10k :tup:
I am always a book worm on this type of information. Funny thing is; I never did like to read much throughout my whole life but when it comes to this stuff, I never do get enough information

 

[10k]

awe crap flowerman, now you went and spoiled all the fun telling em to read THE PRODUCT LABEL
Now I cant rub Levs nose in it heh heh heh
But like the old saying goes... "if all else fails... read the f'kin instructions"

 

[Guest 18340]

Thanks for all the help!!! Nice to see people that are genuinely concerned. I should of been alittle clearer, i use gh flora seies, all 3 bottles. I mix them the proper way (micro first etc),
'Stitch, no, i didnt mix anything into the soil, straight outta the bag into the buckets. I transplanted them into the 5 gallon buckets, with fresh soil, and 2 days later flipped the lights to 12/12. But i didnt give them a drop of nutes until they started looking real bad. I tend to agree with you Stitch, in that they are starved for nutes. Thanks everyone for your input, peace

 

[10k]

evlme2
Thats good on the mixing order, but can you give specifics on the ratio and strength?
Also, what soil pH are you seeing? and runoff pH ?

I tend to agree with flowerman on the soil and see that you're running straight outta the bag. Very poor drainage, plus having soil thats loaded with time release high N. As flowerman elluded to already. What were seeing isn't symptomatic of an N def where we'd see a full yellowing off. To me this looks alot more like an N (and other) toxicity, than and N def.

Thorough flushing is going to be a real bitch with that poor drainage, and with those nute time bombs in the soil it becomes even more complicated to accomplish. I hate the thought of transplanting in budding, but that may be the best alternative to get away from the nute balls and poor drainage.



Lev, ok good then, steer clear of me and stop trolling me like you've done here.
Talk about starting shit dude. You started it again, but I'd be more than happy to end it for you if you persist.
(expect a split & bin at the very least)

 

[Levitikuz]

evlme2 i hope your next grows go better, those fan leaves are needed IMO but some people think they arent...

Did you take clones of those? And ur temps are fine with Mandala genetics, they handle the heat like no other MJ plants i have ever seen...

I send you the best of luck with ur next grows!!!

 

[Dignan]

No doubt about it.... those plants are being fed too much to quickly. Your first clue is when your plants are vegging and they're dark dark green like that. They always look beautiful like that right before they fry from too much N.

 

[big mike]

how do you go about adding gh 3 part if you dont change out the rez, you just want/need to give them another feeding.. ? you dont add the micro? I'm new to this....