Looking for nutrient profiles for Advanced Nutrients

[goatkommando]

I'm trying to find net weight & complete guaranteed analysis information for AN's Micro, Bloom, Grow & B-52 inorder to create my own nutrient solution profile in pH's spreadsheet, basically for something similar to the Lucas formula, if anyone can help, please do I've also already contacted their tech support line & tried their forums...pretty much just a bunch of people trying to push more products on me. Thanks!

edit: oh yah, not all the info is on the bottles or website, or atleast current...the weights on all the products are the same aswell as the guaranteed analysis changes from label to label...its weird.

 

[waster]

I came across this site
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/Product1.asp
which lists analysis of fertilizers sold in washington, I couldn't find AN products, so not that useful, but maybe other states have similar lists?

 

[goatkommando]

yeah, I checked California & Oregon's lists aswell....not too much more help, but I'm beginning to think that they have completely changed the formula of their 3 parter to be exactly that of GH's....I'm going to work with those numbers for now & see how it comes out in ppm....from there & with a lot of math, I should be able to correct it...

 

[sproutco]

You can weigh the liquids on a scale. This company may be trying to hide the exact ingredients to prevent us from copying it. Pm me if you come up with the numbers. I will help do the math, give ratios of nutes to aim for, etc...with you.

 

[goatkommando]

Ok, here is my plan based on what sproutco has mentioned. I am going to weigh 30ml of each of the fluids & use pH's calculator/spreadsheet. For now, here is what my labels list as the guaranteed analysis, they are very similar to GH's 3 parter. Hopefully we can get this information correct & people will perhaps have a cheaper alternative to GH (in my neck of the woods, Advanced costs about half of what GH runs) & the Lucas Formula. Anyways, on with the guaranteed analysis.

Micro:

0.3% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
4.7% Nitrate Nitrogen
1.0% Soluble Potash
5.0% Calcium
0.0005% Cobalt
1.0% Iron (seems a lil high?)
0.05% Manganese
0.001% Molybdenum

Derived From: Calcium Nitrate, Cobalt Nitrate, Copper Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Borate, Calcium Carbonate, EDTA Chelates of Manganese, Iron, Iron DTPA, Sodium Molybdate.

Bloom:

5.0% Phosphate (P2O5)
4.0% Soluable Potash
1.5% Magnesium
1.5% Sulphur

Derived From: Magnesium Phosphate, Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulphate, Magnesium Carbonate & Magnesium Sulphate.

Grow:

0.25% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
1.75% Nitrate Nitrogen
1.0% Phosphate (P2O5)
6.0% Soluable Potash
0.5% Magnesium

Derived From: Ammonium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Magnesium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulphate, Magnesium Carbonate & Magnesium Sulphate.

Obviously there is sulphur in the grow, but how much is unknown.

 

[sproutco]

I am going to weigh 30ml of each of the fluids & use pH's calculator/spreadsheet..

I think you must get rid of the weight of the carrier to know the weight of the ingredients. This would be water. Wouldn't this be net weight? Sometimes you see like for example 1 gallon of iron chelate contains 1.3 pounds iron sulfate. That would be something to look for. That iron to manganese ratio would be 20:1 which is high like your saying. You did not list zinc anywhere even in the list of "derived from"?

 

[goatkommando]

Up next is some other guaranteed analysis' of the products from another source.

Micro:

Nitrogen ....................................... 5.30%
4.90% Nitrate Nitrogen
0.40% Organic Nitrogen
Soluble Potash (K2O) ....................... 1.40%
Calcium (Ca) ..................................... 5.40%
5.40% Water Soluble Calcium
Zinc (Zn) ......................................... 0.008%
0.008% Chelated Copper
Manganese (Mn) ............................. 0.028%
0.028% Chelated Manganese
Boron (B) ........................................ 0.012%
0.012% Water Soluble Boron
Iron (Fe) ........................................... 0.08%
0.08% Chelated Iron
Molybdenum (Mo) ......................... 0.0006%
0.0006% Water Soluble Molybdenum

Derived From:
Calcium Nitrate, Colbalt Nitrate, Copper Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Borate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Casbonate, Iron EDTA, Iron DPTA, Iron EDDHA, Iron Proteinate, Manganese EDTA, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc EDTA, Zinc Proteinate, Copper EDTA, Copper Proteinate, Boron EDTA, Boron Proteinate, Molybdenum EDTA, Molybdenum Proteinate, Colbalt EDTA, Colbalt Proteinate.

Bloom:

Available Phosphate (P2O5) ............. 6.80%
Soluble Potash (K2O) ........................ 5.00%
Magnesium (Mg) ................................ 1.20%
1.20% Water Soluble Magnesium
Sulfur (S) .......................................... 1.80%
1.80% Combined Sulfur

Derived From:

Magnesium Sulphate, Phosphate, Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulphate, Magnesium Carbonate and Magnesium Sulphate.

Grow:
Nitrogen ....................................... 2.20%
0.30% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
1.90% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) ............. 1.10%
Soluble Potash (K2O) ........................ 6.70%
Magnesium (Mg) ................................ 0.59%
0.59% Water Soluble Magnesium
Sulfur (S) .......................................... 1.01%
1.01% Combined Sulfur

Derived From:
Ammonium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Potassium Nitrate, Magnesium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulphate, Magnesium Carbonate and Magnesium Sulphate.

 

[sproutco]

I think you must get rid of the weight of the carrier to know the weight of the ingredients. This would be water. Wouldn't this be net weight? Sometimes you see like for example 1 gallon of iron chelate contains 1.3 pounds iron sulfate. That would be something to look for. That iron to manganese ratio would be 20:1 which is high like your saying.

:smile:

 

[goatkommando]

Yeah, so I would remove the weight of water...RO water I suppose would give me the most accurate results (being that AN claims to use RO water in their products) & then I should arrive at the net weight of the ingredients....at which point I would be able to accurately use the spreadsheet? Am I wrong?

 

[sproutco]

Weight of the water from the bottles of the nutrients. There is a carrier. Right? If the numbers come off really wild then this is not the right way. Weight of water is about 8 pounds or 3632 grams. Get the exact number. Example: Gallon weighs 10 pounds and water is the carrier. Then 2 pounds is the salts in it.

 

[sproutco]

The weight of water per gallon, 8.3453 pounds

= 3785 grams

1 milliliter of water = 1 gram

http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/dickinso/research/2004/range04c.htm

 

[goatkommando]

Ok, excellent information...I just called AN & Tech Mike has led me to believe that the Lucas Formula & any other formula can be adapted to AN 3 parter. He also informed that since getting distrabution in the US they have changed their labels (all of them) to comply down there. The second set of guaranteed analysis' are the correct ones for Micro, and that my bottles for Bloom & Grow are correct for them as they changed the formula on them. So...we are getting closer....but I am still going to check the weights of these using my digital scale & we shall see exactly what we come up with

 

[sproutco]

If you measure 30 ml of liquid from your nutrient bottle into a container (tare the container) and find 35 grams. Then, 5 grams is the amount of salts in it. 1 gram = 1 milliter of water. 35-30=5

Example 5% nitrogen with 30 ml liquid measuring 35 grams = .25 grams

35g-30g=5g x .05 nitrogen= .25 g

.25 grams = 250 milligrams

1000 milligrams in 1 liter = 1000 ppm's

Put the 30ml in 1 liter of water = 250 parts per million nitrogen

 

[goatkommando]

Ok, here are my measuring results....I double measured using a syringe & a small nutrient measuring "cup", and double checked each of the results, this is what I came up with.

Micro = 35.5 grams / 30mL = 1.183333333 G/mL
Bloom = 34.4 grams / 30mL = 1.146666667 G/mL
Grow = 32.9 grams / 30mL = 1.096666667 G/mL

Very similar to the GH contents, slightly weaker in the Micro & Grow area, but not by much really. Next post will be the Lucas Formula for this, aswell as my own formula & 3:2:1/1:2:3 ratios. If anyone else wants to add anything, feel free.

 

[sproutco]

Micro = 35.5 grams / 30mL = 1.183333333 G/mL
Bloom = 34.4 grams / 30mL = 1.146666667 G/mL
Grow = 32.9 grams / 30mL = 1.096666667 G/mL

So micro would contain 5.5 grams of salts. 35.5g - water 30g=5.5g

5.3% nitrogen in micro.

.053 x 5.5g = .29 grams of nitrogen.

.29g=290mg

If you put the 30 ml into a liter of water you would get 290mg/Lor 290 ppm nitrogen or about 76 ppm nitrogen if you put 30ml in a gallon (3.8L) of water



To convert k2o to just k multiply by .83 and to convert p2o5 to just p multiply by .43

 

[goatkommando]

wicked, thanks for all the help sproutco! you've definately allowed me to gain more knowledge not only on the mathematics of nutrient calculation, but with ideas to help me figure this out. Now...onto the profiles:

Lucas Formula 8-16-0 (M-B-G)

pH's "Lucas Formula"
n 130
p 106
k 183
Mg 73

n 133
p 106
k 190
Mg 58

Old School Ratios

GH 15grow, 10micro, 5bloom
n 211
p 46
k 263
Mg 40

n 261
p 54
k 328 (WHOA!)
Mg 44

GH 5grow, 10micro, 15bloom
n 159
p 92
k 219
Mg 66

n 198
p 106
k 268
Mg 63

My Bloom Formula using Mel Frank's targets & all the information I've got....

6-15-2 (M-B-G)

n 112
p 102
k 205
Mg 58

That pretty much puts ya right on target w/ Mel Frank's 100-100-200-60 I hope this information comes in handy for someone other than myself....

 

[sproutco]

I love it! But don't trust the numbers. How did you derive what you got. You should show some of your math rather than an answer. I for one would want to double check your ppms. You did not list calcium. Thats a very important number to evaluate whether the solution will be good and work.

 

[goatkommando]

well...unless pH's excel spreadsheet formulas are wrong, those numbers should be correct...using the second set of Micro & first set of Grow/Bloom numbers & my weights...if the numbers are in any way skewed (for those who have ionic meters & equipment), I'd blame AN lol I'll post all micronutrient levels later....when I have time

 

[Blunt_69]

Ok, excellent information...I just called AN & Tech Mike has led me to believe that the Lucas Formula & any other formula can be adapted to AN 3 parter. He also informed that since getting distrabution in the US they have changed their labels (all of them) to comply down there. The second set of guaranteed analysis' are the correct ones for Micro, and that my bottles for Bloom & Grow are correct for them as they changed the formula on them. So...we are getting closer....but I am still going to check the weights of these using my digital scale & we shall see exactly what we come up with

Sweet!! I was going to say, have you talked to Tech Mike!! I have no idea exactly how you guys are deriving at your answers but, im all for cheaper(if as effective) nutrients!!

 

[goatkommando]

6-15-2 (M-G-B) according to my weights & calculations done by pH's awesome Excel spreadsheet (ya ya I know, I'm lazy & didn't do the math myself)

Nitrogen N 112.2
Phosphorus P 101.8
Potassium K 204.9
Magnesium Mg 57.9
Sulfur S 87.6
Calcium Ca 101.3
Iron Fe 1.50066
Boron B 0.22510
Manganese Mn 0.52523
Zinc Zn 0.15007
Molybdenum Mo 0.01125
Sodium Na 0.00000
Copper Cu 0.00000
Chlorine Cl 0.00000
Cobalt Co 0.00938
Silicon Si 0.00000
Selenium Se 0.00000