Let's talk about Nutes and Ph Runoff :)

[geetardude]

Hey,

This is the 2nd time I've ever fed nutes, and something just doesn't feel right.
I guess I should share what I'm using. Botanicare products: Pure Blend Pro Grow, Liquid Karma, Cal Mag + .

First, I'm wondering how do I know if nutes/supplements have gone bad? I've been seeing quite a few threads here on IC and other places about nutes being bad. Is it the color, or do I have to wait until my plants die to know?
The Pure Blend Pro Grow formula is a very dark color, almost black but not quite. The Liquid Karma looks like some sort of black goop, and the Cal Mag + is a tannish color, which I'm thinking is normal actually.

I have to buy all of my nutes online, as its my only option, so thats why I'm wondering.

As for Ph Runoff.. there's something I"m just not getting. Here's my process:

Fill my 1-gallon tub of tap water, then Ph buffer it until it is 6.8. Then, I add all my stuff, and check Ph, and it was at 6.7, so I added a few more drops to bring it back up to 6.8. After feeding, I checked run-off and it's at 7.5. This is actually the first time I've attempted to check run-off. I don't see what I'm doing wrong, and how the hell is it even possible to change how the soil changes the Ph of your water if its already Ph balanced to 6.8?

 

[Haps]

Gdude, how long between your water adjustments? If you do the same set up, and do not use the water, what is the ph the next day? Are your plants happy or sad? You must pay attention, they will lead you.
H

 

[HeadyPete]

You bring your nute ph or water ph down enough to counter that 7.5, which is way too high. You want soil ph (runoff) at 6.3. 6.3 is the middle of a range of ph (5.8 - 6.8) acceptable, but you want to stay away from the outer limits.

Your nutes should be 5.6 to get to 6.3. Keep in mind you won't need to ph so much as your soil gets back in ideal range.

Please fill this form out:

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

 

[geetardude]

Hey IC,

Haps - I immediately get the water from the tap, and ph buffer it, etc. After I use it, I pour it down the sink. I'm not sure how much the ph fluctuates over a day. My plants seem pretty happy to me. They just have a tad bit of paling green at the tips.

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing? Mandala Safari Mix
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Seed
What is the age of your plants? Almost 2 months.
How Tall are the plants? 6 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) Vegatative?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) None
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 20 oz. soda bottle, 1 plant
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) Fox Farms Ocean Forest/ 30% Perlite
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* Botanicare Line: Pure Blend Pro Grow, Cal Mag +, Liquid Karma
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? N/A
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 7.5
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? pH pen
How often are you watering? Every 3 days..ish. Whenever the top layer of soil is dry.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? Yesterday was 1st feeding after 1st flush.
What size bulb are you using? 4 26 watt CFL
What is the distance to the canopy? 3 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 35%
What is the canopy temperature? 78F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 80F day/ 72F night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)2 32cfm fans
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? for the most part
Is your water HARD or SOFT? I am not sure.
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Tap
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? No
Are plant's infected with pest's? No

 

[greenhead]

Hey IC,

Haps - I immediately get the water from the tap, and ph buffer it, etc.

Isn't it a good idea to let your water sit for a day or two inorder to evaporate the chlorine ?

 

[geetardude]

I read something about chlorine being good for the plants. Promotes cell growth or something?

 

[Guest]

Isn't it a good idea to let your water sit for a day or two inorder to evaporate the chlorine ?

My local water company uses chloramine now, instead of chlorine ... so letting it sit isn't quite the easy option it used to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine#Uses_in_water_treatment

 

[Maj.PotHead]

I read something about chlorine being good for the plants. Promotes cell growth or something?

chlorine will kill all beificial bacteria and fungi in the root zone and fast in a potted canibis plant.

my city uses chlorine i refill jugs after each use and let them sit for min 12 hrs before i do anything to it. i add any ferts to be used to the water then adjust the waters PH to 6.5 i couldnt care what my runoff is because i water to waste. meaning i water untill drainage is achieved then move to next plant, i like 15-20% runoff in drainage.

my water right from the tap is PH 7.2 let it sit over night 7.3, for me this requires 1/4 tsp PH down per gal water to achieve PH 6.5. when i add ferts depending on how much diamond necture i use depends on how much PH down is needed. i've never used ph up for soil the longer ya use the same ferts and dossages the more you'll learn on how much of what to add to bring water into proper PH

 

[Bulldog11]

My local water company uses chloramine now, instead of chlorine ... so letting it sit isn't quite the easy option it used to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine#Uses_in_water_treatment

"Residual Chloramine can then be removed by exposure to bright sunlight for about 4 hours."
Quote from wikipedia.

Doesn't sound too hard to me?

 

[Guest]

Run off PH means nothing in soil/soiless/coco mediums. I am not a hydro expert but, that does not seem to matter as you are using FF. Again, run off PH means nothing!

 

[ackuric]

Run off PH means nothing in soil/soiless/coco mediums. I am not a hydro expert but, that does not seem to matter as you are using FF. Again, run off PH means nothing!

explain how run off ph means nothing. If i buffer my water to 7.0 and test the run off of my soil-less mixture @ 6.0 I can effectively say that my soil/soil-less mixture is roughly 6.5 ph and in good range. Unless lets say I was aiming for a lower ph in my soil/soil-less mixture, then I'd use water @ a ph of about 5.5 to acheive a 6.0 ph in my soil thats approximately 6.5 as was just tested. This is extremely beneficial especially when using a wide variety of chemicals/mixtures to acheive desired outcomes.

 

[Guest]

Run off water contains a "flushed" mixture of what was/is in the medium. As Canna explanes very well. What is important is to take a soil/medium sample(core) from the root zone and add it to distilled neutral water and let it sit for a period of time and then examine the PH. This tells you what the PH of the root zone medium it or which way to go with your nutrient mixture.

Run off is just a mix of what came out and tells you little if anything about what is in the root zone. You could water/feed and push a bunch of calcium or other mineral out that effects PH and not some others and at the same time you are adding to the medium as you feed. Therefore you need to study the root zone to see what is there.