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LEDs emerge to fight fluorescents

bartender187

Bakin in da Sun
Veteran
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070513/ap_on_hi_te/led_lighting
By PETER SVENSSON, AP Technology Writer
Sun May 13, 3:25 AM ET

NEW YORK - The light bulb, the symbol of bright ideas, doesn't look like such a great idea anymore, as lawmakers in the U.S. and abroad are talking about banning the century-old technology because of its contribution to global warming.

But what comes next? Compact fluorescent bulbs are the only real alternative right now, but "bulbs" that use light-emitting diodes, or LEDs, are quickly emerging as a challenger.

LEDs, which are small chips usually encased in a glass dome the size of a matchstick head, have been in use in electronics for decades to indicate, for example, whether a VCR is on or off.

Those LEDs were usually red or green, but a scientific breakthrough in the 1990s paved the way for the production of LEDs that produce white light. Because they use less power than standard incandescent bulbs, white LEDs have become common in flashlights.

Established players in the lighting industry and a host of startups are now grooming LEDs to take on the reigning champion of residential lighting, the familiar pear-shaped incandescent light bulb.

The light bulb has been running out of friends recently. California and Canada have decided to ban the sale of incandescent bulbs by 2012. Australia is banning them in 2010. The
European Union is looking at banning production of the bulbs. A U.S. Senate committee is working on a proposal that would phase out the light bulb in 10 years.

And in New Jersey, where the first practical incandescent bulb emerged from Thomas Edison's laboratory in 1879, a bill has been introduced to ban their use in government buildings.

Governments are gunning for the light bulb because it's much less efficient than fluorescents, using about five times more energy to produce the same amount of light.

Lighting consumes 22 percent of electricity produced in the U.S., according to the
Department of Energy, and widespread use of LED lighting could cut consumption in half. By 2027, LED lighting could cut annual energy use by the equivalent of 500 million barrels of oil, with the attendant reduction in emissions of carbon dioxide, the gas believed to be responsible for global warming.

Much of that reduction would be possible with today's technology, using compact fluorescents, or CFLs. But consumers haven't warmed to them. The light quality hasn't been satisfactory, most take time to turn on and aren't dimmable.

The LED has advantages over the CFL in most of those areas, and judging by this week's Lightfair trade show in New York, it could be a serious challenge to the CFL in a few years. What holds it back is chiefly price, but LEDs are already an economic alternative for niche uses.

In the last two years, the diodes have doubled in energy efficiency and brightness, according to Greg Merritt, director of marketing for Durham, N.C.-based LED-manufacturer Cree Inc. In particular, LEDs that produce a yellowish or "warm" light similar to incandescents have improved.

Dallas-based Lighting Science Group Corp. showed an LED "bulb" that screws into a standard medium-sized socket and produces a warm light equivalent to that of a 25-watt incandescent bulb, but consumes just 5.8 watts. It costs $50, hardly palatable to consumers who can buy a standard bulb for less than a dollar.

Polybrite International, a startup in Naperville, Ill., announced that lighting giant Osram Sylvania, a subsidiary of Germany's Siemens AG, will distribute its LED "bulbs." The intended market is mainly commercial clients, who can afford to pay $15 to $85 per unit, according to Osram Sylvania marketing manager Constance Pineault.

The energy efficiency is no doubt a draw for commercial clients like hotels, but LEDs have another big advantage: they last up to 50,000 hours, according to manufacturers. That compares to about 10,000 hours for fluorescents and 1,000 hours for incandescents. Not having to send out janitors to replace burned-out bulbs means big savings in maintenance costs.

"Right now the applications that make sense are either high maintenance or high power consumption, like parking garages, where the lights are on all the time," said Cree's Merritt.

LEDs already beat fluorescents for energy efficiency in some niche uses. For instance, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is putting LED lighting in its in-store refrigerators, where the cold dims fluorescents and incandescents produce too much heat. LEDs also starting to replace flat fluorescent backlights in liquid-crystal displays, or LCDs, where they produce better colors.

LEDs don't contain toxic mercury, which CFLs do, though the amount is very small. (Recent stories circulating on the Web about calling a hazmat team if a CFL breaks are exaggerated. The U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency recommends sweeping up, not vacuuming, the fragments, then checking out local recycling options.)

The cost of LED lighting should be coming down quickly. Polybrite founder Carl Scianna said the cost of individual white-light diodes, several of which go into an LED bulb and make up much of the cost, have come down in price from about $8 to $1.50 in a year.

"They're going to keep going down," Scianna said. "By the middle of next year, they'll be priced for consumers."

Nadarajah Narendran, director of lighting research at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y., cautions that there are still technical issues to work out with LEDs.

While single LEDs can demonstrate very high energy efficiency in the lab, when they're combined into fixtures, their efficiency is considerably lower. In part that's a heat issue: the diodes produce less heat than incandescents, but they keep that heat in the fixture rather than radiating it, and the hotter the diodes get, the less efficient they are.

He sees screwing LED bulbs into standard sockets "as a waste of talent" that doesn't utilize the inherent properties of LEDs, like their small size and longevity.

"You could build them in as part of the furniture, part of the cabinetry," Narendran said.

Because of their high prices, he doesn't believe LEDs will be ready to replace incandescents in all their uses for the next five to 10 years, but "LEDs, good or bad, will be growing very rapidly."
 

JJDubz

Active member
I think this is great, anything that helps the environment is a huge plus in my book.

We have already changed most of our bulbs over to those spiral shaped power saving ones.

Soon we'll have rain water resevoirs for watering, solar panels and down the road, wind generators.

People dont realize what we are doing to OUR earth. Greenhouse gases are totally killing our atmosphere, everyone can do their part to help out though. Only when we have global co-operation will we make any real impact.
 

marx2k

Active member
Veteran
Reducing global impact as humans means reducing birth rates to meet death rates, and I don't see that happening. Sorry.
 

marx2k

Active member
Veteran
Since the boom of population is eating up resources and depositing pollution faster than any other even t on this planet, that should be our main goal. Decline or at least stabilization of our population.

We have finite resources and an exponentially expanding amount of people. You do the math :)
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
Marx... You definately are a radical looking for an argument...

This thread is about the increasing effeciency of LEDs versus CFLs and Incandescents...

Why are you trying to turn it into something else?

If you want a population control thread, go start one... You and all your talking animal friends can discuss the downfalls of humanity to your heart's content...

You come across like a highschooler who has just begun reading radical social commentary, and thinks he's figured the solution to the world's ills...

Back to the Topic at hand....
LED effeciency and brightness has doubled in the past two years... A couple more 'doublings' these are really going to be a viable alternative...
 
Last edited:

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
marx2k said:
Reducing global impact as humans means reducing birth rates to meet death rates, and I don't see that happening. Sorry.
Surely you're not so Short-sighted that you think the only way to reduce global impact is population control... or are you?
 

JJDubz

Active member
Yah, I totally disagree with that...

Back on topic however, trying to be as ecological as possible, I decided to toss my old flashlight, and buy a LED one, a PrinceTon Tec 1.3w LED light, uses 4 batteries and lasts 12+ hours!!! This baby is twice as bright as any old normal flashlight, uses less (rechargable batteries) and lasts forever. Now when the GF has to go do her business whne were camping at night, she doesnt have to drag me out of bed and can just illuminate the area with this here beasty!
 

marx2k

Active member
Veteran
Grat3fulh3ad said:
Surely you're not so Short-sighted that you think the only way to reduce global impact is population control... or are you?

Nope, it's not the only way, but the most direct way. Once that falls into place, everything else becomes much easier.
 

marx2k

Active member
Veteran
JJDubz said:
Yah, I totally disagree with that...

Back on topic however, trying to be as ecological as possible, I decided to toss my old flashlight, and buy a LED one, a PrinceTon Tec 1.3w LED light, uses 4 batteries and lasts 12+ hours!!! This baby is twice as bright as any old normal flashlight, uses less (rechargable batteries) and lasts forever. Now when the GF has to go do her business whne were camping at night, she doesnt have to drag me out of bed and can just illuminate the area with this here beasty!

The LED flashlights are quite nice. I think even better that the ones using batteries are the ones which you can use agitation to power. Produces even less waste (no batteries!). A few shakes and you got enough power to use for whatever purpose you need it for. Power running low? A few more shakes!

Same goes for the crank-power short and longwave radios versus one that use multiple D-cells.
 

marx2k

Active member
Veteran
Grat3fulh3ad said:
[... bullshit deleted ...]

Back to the Topic at hand....
LED effeciency and brightness has doubled in the past two years... A couple more 'doublings' these are really going to be a viable alternative...

The problem with LED's at this point isnt efficiency, it's price. I would say a couple more 'halvings' in price and LED's which are powerful enough for most applications now would become a viable alternative.
 
G

Guest

Grat3fulh3ad said:
Back to the Topic at hand....
LED effeciency and brightness has doubled in the past two years... A couple more 'doublings' these are really going to be a viable alternative...

Another couple 'doublings' and they'll be ready for the gardens of ICmaggers :smoke:


~Ninja~
 

Nikijad4210

Member
Veteran
marx2k said:
Nope, it's not the only way, but the most direct way. Once that falls into place, everything else becomes much easier.
In a roundabout way (or a totally direct one) that was Hitler's mindset---control/extinguish the undesired population.



As far as LEDs go, I agree the problem is much more the cost than the efficiency. They're not cheap lights by any means just yet, most people can't afford to outfit a home with them.
 

Pops

Resident pissy old man
Veteran
If they can produce a 1000w LED for about $65, I am game. Until then, I will use HPS.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
marx2k said:
The problem with LED's at this point isnt efficiency, it's price. I would say a couple more 'halvings' in price and LED's which are powerful enough for most applications now would become a viable alternative.
Yup... According to the article that's exactly what's happening...

e cost of LED lighting should be coming down quickly. Polybrite founder Carl Scianna said the cost of individual white-light diodes, several of which go into an LED bulb and make up much of the cost, have come down in price from about $8 to $1.50 in a year.

:chin:
 
J

Jack Crevalle

Marx... You definately are a radical looking for an argument...

This thread is about the increasing effeciency of LEDs versus CFLs and Incandescents...

Why are you trying to turn it into something else?

If you want a population control thread, go start one... You and all your talking animal friends can discuss the downfalls of humanity to your heart's content...

You come across like a highschooler who has just begun reading radical social commentary, and thinks he's figured the solution to the world's ills...

Back to the Topic at hand....
LED effeciency and brightness has doubled in the past two years... A couple more 'doublings' these are really going to be a viable alternative...

THis could apply to a few threads nowadays on IC....

There are LED threads on ICmag and the amount of nay sayers and haters is amazing.
I guess anything new that is different will create this animosity in humans. Pretty funny phenomenon, like denial or something. Like Betamax, Vhs, and CDs. Old technology stays by the roadside and the haters are always the last ones to gain from the advantages. I was flamed a time or two when I said T5s could easily replace a MH in veg and still work very well....
 

marx2k

Active member
Veteran
Hey... Beta > VHS :)

But as far as cost of LED's, it's all about economy of scale. As it becomes more adopted into every day uses, the price will come down even further. I am glad that the move is going towards these little miracles and not just towards compact fluoro's (mercury) - for a while I was afraid that now that there was such a huge push towards fluoros, the world would find that to be good enough for the next ten years and mass produce those little mercury bombs (not that I'm totally against them, but everyone knows that only a fraction of fluoros will be recycled, the rest to end up leaking hG into landfills and watersheds) and not consider other forms of lighting. But now that I see we are also embracing LEDs, that makes me a happy dude. I would say that even though they've been around for a long time, they are still the wave of the future.

BTW, Niki... Hitler's final solution was extermination of a certain section of the population -- my solution is anti-breeding pressure on ALL of the population. Limited resources, unlimited population -- but let's forget that for this thread :D
 

Yummybud

Active member
Veteran
I think LEDs are great, they last a very long time, many years can last a lifetime.

Large leds are still pretty expensive and not widely availabe yet.

Also not sure what kind of light they will produce in comparison to CFLS and incadescent.

it's about time to get rid of incadescents they are not efficient at all, produce much more heat than light.

funny how the light bulb has basicly stayed unchanged since Thomas Edison invented it.
 
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