LED's : A Perpetual Practical Experience Guide To The Newest Technology

[chakras]

I have been reading quite a bit on the topic on the newest LED's, and am almost as confused as when I started, lol. Not really, but:

I wanted to start a thread, since I was unable to locate one specifically, where we all threw our bias, nuances, and subjective pursuasions aside, and focused instead on the state of the newest technology, starting in 2022 - 2023, heading into the near future beyond.

I am hopeful that this could be a self-perpetuating educational thread, based purely on as much objectivity as possible, regarding the quality and yield forthcoming. And, of coure, any acual comparisions, as neutral as possible, between LED's versus MH's / HPS's, etc.

I consider myself a newbie regarding the practical use of the newer available best models, and the beneifts at certain price points: L / $. Therefore, I'm very interested in this subject, as someone that will potentially be embarking, from what has been recent industry norms.

Again, I ask that this thread be advanced forward as one that focuses on practical, hand-on experience please, from any current users. Any objective discussion regarding brands, and specific newer models, are most welcome, as long as they are not self-promotional. And, of course, pictures of actual setups of lighting, are most welcome. Thanks!

 

[Creeperpark]

Good question. LEDs are everywhere some are cheap and others very expensive. There are over 250 manufacturers that manufacture using the same diodes. What's the difference? NO difference when it comes to common LED uses 3W, and 5W 12 bands LED diodes having many different options. To be honest some of the cheaper ones can manage plant growth as well as expensive ones. I use two 130-watt Chinese LEDs mixed with one 400 HPS @ 600 watts. Total price for everything is $400 compared to $1200 for 600 watts.

 

[Creeperpark]

Good question. LEDs are everywhere some are cheap and others very expensive. There are over 250 manufacturers that manufacture using the same diodes. What's the difference? NO difference when it comes to common LED uses 3W, and 5W 12 bands LED diodes having many different options. To be honest some of the cheaper ones can manage plant growth as well as expensive ones. I use two 130-watt Chinese LEDs mixed with one 400 HPS @ 600 watts. Total price for everything is $400 compared to $1200 for 600 watts.

I'm poor money-wise. If I had plenty of money I would get myself an expensive one.

 

[chakras]

I am looking at something that will cover a 6' x 6' area hopefully, that I can put on a tracker too for a few more feet. I know what I want, but I too have looked at, and shrugged off, paying over a grand for something I am unsure of. I do believe to a plant, a lumen is a lumen. However, I have been listening with some obvious interest, and the jury seems out, regarding the penetration factor. I am sure some of this definitely has to do with the strain (height, etc), and plant manipulation/leaf structure too. The obvious advantage of one flat spectrum of lights in such a setup as I have described is even coverage. With the same strains, with similar phenotypes, keeping things uniform, from start to finish, is a definite advantage. Recently I have been hearing folks say they are getting better quality results from LED's. However, that seems anything but definitive as of yet. And, I too don't want to spend any more than I need to.

 

[chakras]

I'm poor money-wise. If I had plenty of money I would get myself an expensive one.

Part of the serious question that rests inside me is do I really and truly need the 5 year (10 year) or so Warranty that some of the more expensive and newest brands are offering. And, will they really be around, if and when I needed them, to pony upon on what typically is a limited case-by-case warranty? Some of that seems rather dubious to me. I know from previous experience with electronic devices that if it works the first and second time, for 30 minutes each, that it is likely to keep on working for the normal longevity for whatever that product. For example, I have never in my life, and I have owned many, had a conventional vacuum ever die on me. Though I often strive to steer clear of Chinese made electronic products, this may be a case where economics dictates that is the best and smartest route to take. Now I just need to find one with the coverage I desire. I have also read with interest about people affixing a MH or HPS on top of their spans of LED bars. Not sure if the tracker can handle that additional weight, but it appears ingenious too. Anyone with any ideas regarding brands and such, please feel free to chime in.

 

[chakras]

And, if anyone can provide any defniitive (hands-on) knowledge regarding the veracity of the "better > best" claims regarding Samsung's "New Mint White" Series diodes vs their standard LM301b diode LED's I am really truly all ears!

 

[Dirtynugs]

And, if anyone can provide any defniitive (hands-on) knowledge regarding the veracity of the "better > best" claims regarding Samsung's "New Mint White" Series diodes vs their standard LM301b diode LED's I am really truly all ears!

435 is ~15-20% more efficient than the 450 chip. That allows Samsung to focus on improving a stand alone 660nm ,while offering better blue. In other words more 660 chips will yield the same result while using more efficient chips than what previously provided much of the red spectrum. You still need a good spectrum. Most manufactures will implement a mix of 450 and 435 evo as the price for 450 goes down due to its inevitable replacement. Evo chips are already available in a good assortment of spectrums but that how capitalism works. Most led companies dont want consumers to know about evo until the price drops or the clearance rack runs out of 450.


17% more light with the same power consumption, yes please. I'm a sucker for high up front costs if it saves on the monthly bill.

 

[BuckeyeGreen]

I don’t know where you guys are shopping but you can get some amazing lights for much less than the prices quoted. I got the 640 watt version of this light and I’m sending you a link for the bigger one that might cover he 6x6. Great deal at $600.

PROGROW 850 | Grow Light Science

www.growlightscience.com

I found out about this company from watching the Migro channel on YouTube . He reviewed a couple of their lights and was so impressed that he reached a deal to be a distributor of their lights in England. My 640 watt light from them is fantastic. It is now selling for about $420 and that is a huge bargain for that light.

 

[chakras]

Very much obliged @Dirtynugs & @BuckeyeGreen. Great stuff !
And, thank you both for the money saving ideas and information.
Sure I'm not alone in gratitude for the informative links and news.

 

[St. Phatty]

Newest technology does not mean best technology.

I suggest using the websites of stores like
https://anatekinstruments.com/

and also Digikey and Mouser, to try and assemble the spectrum of LED light that approximates Day light.

Of course some applications can't afford waste heat.

There is a lot of money in simulating daylight.

But for people on the ground - HID's work better than LED's - for flowering.

I use LED's for mid-veg and they work great.

Then they kill the plants, literally, in flowering. The silver lining is, it forced me to make my soil & nutes as good as possible.

I think there might be some advantage in using HID-supplemented LED's, a combination of the 2.

 

[da kine]

^^^
That is currently and my conclusion and researched understanding too as of right now. LED's certainly are great for veg, but as of yet do not appear to have all the indoor desirable essences of HID's. I have not personally got the experience yet of combining. I like the idea of a dual setup too, so getting or creating a fixture that utilizes both could be on my list, once I see more LED improvements. Like everyone, I would relish the idea of long term savings.

 

[AngrySquirrel]

I encourage everyone to watch this video by horticulture professor Dr. MJ Coco.

​

“The Science of Horticultural LEDs​

My latest video project is on The Science of Horticultural LEDS! For the first time ever, I, Dr MJ Coco, appear in person, on camera in this video!
LEDs are the Present and Future of Horticultural Lighting! However, there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about horticultural LEDS. In this video, I do a deep dive into the science of horticultural LEDs. I explain the Physics of Light Emitting Diodes and the latest horticultural science about photosynthesis, spectrum, and plant development, including cannabinoids.”

LEDs have come a long way and are by far the best to use. I know that statement is like throwing bombs in a forum but it really is backed by the science. Not only are they the most efficient (which saves you money in electricity bills) but they all pretty much have the currently known best color spectrum for cannabis. As for which one to get it comes down to whichever one is has the best coverage/PAR map for your space. Light is light, so more efficient, correct color spectrum, and coverage, are all better than the older styles of lights. Just my two cents!

 

[NoiseCTRL]

When it comes to LED, you're not just buying the light, you also buying the spectrum. In my experience you can be very lucky and find a good spectrum for very cheap, but most of the cheap ones makes absurd claims to market their product. I'm currently using lumatek 200w pro and mars hydro fce 3000

 

[chronosync]

Newest technology does not mean best technology.

I suggest using the websites of stores like
https://anatekinstruments.com/

and also Digikey and Mouser, to try and assemble the spectrum of LED light that approximates Day light.

Of course some applications can't afford waste heat.

There is a lot of money in simulating daylight.

But for people on the ground - HID's work better than LED's - for flowering.

I use LED's for mid-veg and they work great.

Then they kill the plants, literally, in flowering. The silver lining is, it forced me to make my soil & nutes as good as possible.

I think there might be some advantage in using HID-supplemented LED's, a combination of the 2.

What temps do you run during flower, with LED?

 

[St. Phatty]

What temps do you run during flower, with LED?

Maybe the room was 80 degrees F.

BUT I never flowered using an LED.

I TRIED to flower using an LED.

Must have had the wrong light spectrum for flowering - but OK for veg.

 

[gmanwho]

From what ive learned recently about led's, spectrum and hardware(diodes and drivers) is everything. to summarize, for now in some cases , i like to use the $ to watt analogy. But it could not always be true. At the time of writing this i feel like theres a plateau , and 4 categories of manufacturing worth mentioning. I could be wrong, so just an opinion here.....

1) some companies seem to use low end hardware and charge medium to higher end prices. Not even stating their diode sources or driver. maybe pushing $1.00 to $1.25a watt. Or maybe even stating the diodes are say samsung, and they can be using 2nd bin or clones.

2)Other companies use high end components and charge high high end prices. Running with statements of the highest efficiency available. But this efficiency increase maybe in the 0.1 to 0.5 percent increases from diodes 4-6 months ago. But then again these maybe the new new technology in play. Cost Pushing $1.25 to $2 a watt. After all they gotta pay for research, marketing, however many salaries, and the building space here in america. that overhead cost gets pushed to the consumer.

3)Then there are companies selling bottom end everything and lowest of the low prices. maybe $0.50 on the watt. Light spectrum's unsuitable for flowering high end cannabis.

4) Then there seems to be a mix of well known components for the $0.75 to $0.80 a watt range. producing a spectrum close to the sun. a higher efficacy but not the highest efficiency available. Diodes or hardware tech thats efficent and maybe tech thats 6-8 months old. But still such a massive jump from someone coming from HID technology. personally this is what ive been looking towards. A mix of samsung ushio and or lg diodes. and drivers from meanwell or inventronics.

just some 2 cents.

 

[windmills]

I think you summed it up pretty well. I am also "looking", vauely in the market for new and improved setups. Not an immediate need. I hear and read mixed reviews for the benefits of LED vs HID conventional systems. I am likewise hearing some back and forth now from people that are reverting back to HPS from CMH lighting, stating they get better plant utilization from the former. Fortunately I am still in the pondering stage, maybe a half or year window to decide. With prices dropping significantly for end product in many places, you would think that'd open some eyes.

 

[windmills]

I'm poor money-wise. If I had plenty of money I would get myself an expensive one.

I think perhaps we are right in the middle of a pause where competion is going to spur innovation, and lower pricing = a better product and better light utilization and lumens per watt. I am back in the HPS camp currently. I have no intention to move away from the idea of tubes for vegging. It would be just grand if everything worked that well.

 

[Gry]

Used to love to go with 600/400 Watt hps stacks and make my plants flat in a 3 by10 closet.
Was gifted with a FC3000 and tent. Was so pleased that I bought a FCE3000 and have been
more than happy with them both. They allow one to grow in the heat of the summer with
amazing results, and lower power bill.

 

[gmanwho]

I don’t know where you guys are shopping but you can get some amazing lights for much less than the prices quoted. I got the 640 watt version of this light and I’m sending you a link for the bigger one that might cover he 6x6. Great deal at $600.

PROGROW 850 | Grow Light Science

www.growlightscience.com

I found out about this company from watching the Migro channel on YouTube . He reviewed a couple of their lights and was so impressed that he reached a deal to be a distributor of their lights in England. My 640 watt light from them is fantastic. It is now selling for about $420 and that is a huge bargain for that light.

Hey Bucky, know u said u have the 640w version. i dont see anywhere on what diodes or drivers they use on this or the 640w. And watched the migro video as well. Do you happen to know? Curious, as it seems that most company's will state their hardware when they use samsung ushio or lg, and state meanwell or inventronics drivers, if they do. But tend to state nothing about their hardware when they use "lower end diodes or drivers". just saying a trend i often see. All i saw stated on the 850 specs was " gls high red, and top bin led's"

And yes, the Migro channel is a great place to learn about leds and new trends. I commend him for being as open source as he is. today this is a trait not often practiced. Lots of valuable knowledge within any of his feeds!!

Thanks