Leaves going ugly green then falling off

[somebody041]

Hello all. I normally grow in LC's soil-less mix with organic soil nutrients. I supplement this with compost teas and other organic additives. This time, I wanted to try a supersoil. The recipe that I'm following recommends starting the plants in half gallon pots of quality soil. I had taken a bunch of clones in 2"x2" pots filled with LC's soil-less mix and transplanted them into #1 nursery pots (a bit over 1/2 gallon) filled with roots organic 707 blend soil with 20% perlite and 2 tbls dolomite lime per gallon). They were doing fine in the 2x2 pots pots... all lush green with relatively no discolorations or problems whatsoever. I gave them a compost tea, and a light nute feeding while they were in the 2x2 pots and observed no adverse effects. Once I transplanted them into half gallon pots full of Roots Organic 707 blend Soil (with 20% perlite and 2 tbls dolomite lime added per gallon), the problems started. The leaves around the bottom of the plant will turn an ugly green and eventually fall off. They do not turn brown or yellow before falling, they stay the ugly green color. The texture is kinda crispy.

If I had to guess I would say I am experiencing PH problems. However if I'm only feeding water then how could PH be a problem?


I would like to add to this that I did have some technical problems. After transplanting them into the #1 pots, in a completely unrelated incident, my flexible ducting busted apart which lead to a temporary spike in temperatures. I tried to fix it but the replacement ducting busted apart again and again and again. It happened the following 3 nights! (does anybody have a problem with the hydrofarm flexible ducting busting apart?) I have replaced all of the hydrofarm ducting with some I got from home depot that seems to be much more durable and the problem has ceased. However, during the time periods that the ducting was busted, the light wasn't getting cooled and the temperatures reached up to 96 degrees. I'm not sure how long the plants were exposed to the temperatures since I only check on them once a day. The last time the temperature spiked was 3 days ago. My problem has continued to occur since then, when the temperature was at a max of 82.



ARE YOU USING?

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?

Since transplanting into bigger containers and new soil. which has been 6 days.

What STRAIN are you growing?

so many! blue dot, chem dog 91, bubba kush, purple kush, blue dream, paranormal, skunk x afghani, schrom, and green crack. i just got a bunch of new strains so i'm growing them all out to see which ones are my keepers. the problems exist on all strains, though some, like the paranormal and blue dream, have it worse than other.

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)

all from clone

What is the age of your plants?

2-3 weeks from rooting.

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?

6 days

How Tall are the plants?

between 4" and one foot

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?

vegetative

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)

no technique

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)

#1 nursery pots... i think they are a little bigger than a half gallon

What substrate/medium are you using?

roots organic 707 blend soil

What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)

roots organic 707 blend soil with 20% perlite and 2 tbls dolomite lime per gallon

What Nutrient's are you using?

i haven't given any nutes since it's been in this soil since it has nutes in it already. i gave it blue mountain organic's grow it green when it was in the 2x2 pots

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*

i gave them 1/4 strength nutes and they didn't show any signs of overfeeding.

How often are you feeding?

only done it once, when they weren't in the pots they are now which is when the problems started

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?

haven't checked

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?

i haven't had runoff in these pots yet. i've watered the pots twice, once at transplanting, once 3 days after when the pots were light. both waterings have been light since the plants are small.

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?

i test the ph of my water using accurate strips (within .25). ph is normally around 6.1

How often are you watering?

one at transplant, once 3 days after when the pots were light. both waters have been light since the plants are small

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?

back when they were in the 2x2 pots. only gave them one dose
What size bulb are you using?

400w metal halide

What is the distance to the canopy?

i raised the light up over 3 feet when transplanting to reduce stress. i've lowered it a little bit but it's still 30" above the canpoy

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)

45%

What is the canopy temperature?

hovers around 80

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)

75-80

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)

i have a 750 CFM fan pulling air through the open end of the hood running through quite a bit of ducting. when i put my hand in front of the open end i'd estimate that the actual CFM is around 250

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?

ventilation is running 24/7. i have a 4x10" hole in the bottom of the tent for a passive intake. the room is overdue to be remade (it's just panda film and 2x4s) so there are some other holes around the tent that let air in

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?

no

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?

it cycles between wet and dry

Is your water HARD or SOFT?

soft... 90-200 ppm

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?

i use the tallboy from hydrologic. it's not a complete RO but it removes chlorine and sediment. i'm not sure what to call it.

Are you using water from a water softener?

no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?

no

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?

no

Are plant's infected with pest's?

no






thanks for taking the time to read my post and offer advice on what you think the problem is! i am all ears!

 

[duts]

I only fed with nutes once, the rest of the time I use straight distilled, and I get the same pH problems. Not sure why it happens, and no one can figure out why either.

 

[MynameStitch]

OOOO, this one is going to be tricky, because it could be caused by 3 things, pH, soil too rich, or your temps are too high and I bet 2 out of the 3 may be causing this problem.

Ok, first thing; the plants are too stretchy; you need to move the light down a bit more...

Unforninatly, with the feeding you gave them and the transplant, the mixture is too strong for there size.... that mixture is very rich in nutrient, with your plants stretching the way they are, they seem like they are bigger, but they are not, because they are stretched; so the plant is still young and the mixture is too strong for them, you are going to have to flush the mixture with a lot of water

The color of the leaves the brown crispy is due to leaves dying from roots getting burned from the mixture being too rich.

Your temps could have very easily played a role in with the leaves curling, it could be a mixture of both, but with the plants getting affected after transplant... it's a high probability the plants are in too rich of a mixture for there size and age.

If I had to guess I would say I am experiencing PH problems. However if I'm only feeding water then how could PH be a problem?

It's is important to check the pH, because pH can also cause the problem you are seeing, crispy leaves nutrient lockout and so forth.

With the mixture you are using you are using soil, so there for your soil pH with added amendments have a big part in what your pH is going to be. Soiless and hydro your water is going to have a bigger impact.

Your mixture contains the following:
, coarse
peat, coco fiber, compost, perlite, pumice, worm castings, bat guano,
fish bone meal, soybean meal, feather meal, kelp meal and much more.

That's high stuff, so I would flush your plants out 2 gallons of water each plant, it will flush a lot of the nutrients out so you will need to feed sooner than the bag says you will need to feed, due to the flush.

 

[Greenlife1]

Definatly agree with mynamestitch. One added thing when you do your flush.....if you use room temp or actually a little warmer like high 70's...this will help flush the nutes a little easier.

 

[somebody041]

duts - did you do anything to solve the problem on your plants or are you still experiencing it?

stitch- thanks for taking a look! i agree that it's probably a combination of a few things, hell maybe even all three, that are causing this problem. the guys at my hydro store assured me that this 707 mix was safe to use on plants of all ages. in the future, when would you recommend transplanting the clones from 2x2 pots of soil-less into half gallon pots of this mix? how about if in the future i cut this mix with some peat to make it less potent? i will try flushing them and report back how they look.

greenlife - thanks for the tip man. i'll let my water sit overnight to adjust to room temperature

 

[MynameStitch]

lol, take a look at my thread I Made about hydroguy F*** up thread, you will see why you never listen to a hydro store guy.

http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=84393

For newly rooted clones, I always used see starter mixture, same with seedlings and keep them in there for about a week and 1/2 then transplant into a better mixture, In my growing experience I find that giving them just the correct balance of nutrients, not too much not to little boosts there growth along with keeping them in the correct pot size, correct pot size is extremely important too, the bigger the pot, smaller the plant, the longer it takes to grow, cannabis grows great when you got the correct pot size, they need to root around 75% of the pot and they hit a "growth spurt" doing this helps aid in bigger yields a lot. Also helps you put your plant into a richer mixture more quickly.

I would not have transplanted them in the pot size, for one because of them stretching and there age and height.

Somebody, yes you can do that; just make sure you don't add too much peat, because peat and soil have 2 different pH types and I have seen people use 50/50 and have soooo many problems, so just make sure you don't use too much of it, it's good to have peat in there, aerate the soil well and add some perlite to it and you got a good drainage.

 

[somebody041]

just wanted to report that i could see improvement within 24 hours of flushing. i left some of the heavier feeders untouched (like the bubba and schrom) since they seemed to recover from the shock on their own but others like the skunk x afghani and blue dream were really hurting.

flushed with approx. 2 gallons of water and now the leaves are perky and happy!

 

[MynameStitch]

Good to hear! Good luck with the rest of your grow; may you have plentiful buds!

 

[Blue Dot]

phosphorus deficiency