Leaves curling inwards on both plants and drooping sickly on one.

[Reg Dixon]

SOIL:


How long has this problem been going on? With TD a few days. NL auto for 1 week
What STRAIN are you growing?Tangerine Dream and Northern Lights Auto
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)Seed
What is the age of your plants?13 days
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?About 8 days.
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? They were in 'seed up' black potting soil. Not very soily at all tho.
How Tall are the plants?4 inches TD and 2 inches NL auto
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?seedling
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)CFL closet style grow with outdoor breaks.
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) maybe 3/4 of a gallon. Maybe a bit smaller.
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) They are both in soil. Not mixed with anything. The soil has a picture of a sunflower on it. That is all I know about it.
What brand Nutrient's are you using? No nutes yet.
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?Last water on the NL it was 7.2 but todays watering I didn't allow more than 2 drops of run off due to fear of over watering. I watered with PH lowered water (6.4).
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? I test PH when I water if there is enough runoff. I PH lower my water as I know the soil PH is way too high now. (7.6 at least)
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? I use a bottle of solution which is added to run off water.
How often are you watering?2-4 days as needed. Finger method.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?Various CFL's Biggest 65w smallest 23w. Around 18k lumens on 2 plants normally.
How old is your bulbs? new
What is the distance to the canopy? V close matter of inches.
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)60-70% while indoors. 50-60% when outdoors
What is the canopy temperature? Just under 30 degrees celsius.
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)22-32
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)There is airflow in the room but it is a loose cab with a ceiling fan and small fan on the plants directly.
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Always running when the plants are on. Ceiling fan. Small fan blowing air into the 'cab' and water cooled A/C sucking it out then blowing cooler air into the room.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Yes but it is a small fan and blowing more at pot level than plants level.
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
RO PH lowered to around 6.4
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen) RO is 7.0 without PH down
Are you using water from a water softener? No/IDK/ It is RO water.
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's? no

Here are pics taken today of both plants... The first 2 pics are NL auto

I am guessing the problem is high PH or overwatering or both.
Am I right?

 

[SeaMaiden]

They're a little light green colored, but other than that I'm not sure what the problem is. I don't personally care for the looks of the soil, but they appear to be growing.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

no clue, but i would be interested to find out what the problem is. i see it on a couple of my recent plants.

i thought maybe it was magnesium since late stage magnesium causes leaves to curl up but even after fixing the mag it still shows cupped up leaves like a taco. here and there.

could be light intensity is too much as i've heard and the leaves are trying to lower their profile. how close are your light to the top of the plants?

after taking it to the internet since i've already searched this site looking for the solution and not finding anything. i didn't find anything out in 99% of the internet searches, but one thread i found had a guy with similar issues. he fixed his runoff ph to about 6.2 and moved his lights away.
i would start with pH and then if that doesnt fix it after a few days then try moving the lights up a couple inches.

mine have stopped doing it a while ago, but i never figured out what caused it, i thought maybe genetics but yours are still seedlings mine didn't show these cupped up leaves till i was like 4-5 nodes in.

 

[Reg Dixon]

no clue, but i would be interested to find out what the problem is. i see it on a couple of my recent plants.

i thought maybe it was magnesium since late stage magnesium causes leaves to curl up but even after fixing the mag it still shows cupped up leaves like a taco. here and there.

could be light intensity is too much as i've heard and the leaves are trying to lower their profile. how close are your light to the top of the plants?

after taking it to the internet since i've already searched this site looking for the solution and not finding anything. i didn't find anything out in 99% of the internet searches, but one thread i found had a guy with similar issues. he fixed his runoff ph to about 6.2 and moved his lights away.
i would start with pH and then if that doesnt fix it after a few days then try moving the lights up a couple inches.

mine have stopped doing it a while ago, but i never figured out what caused it, i thought maybe genetics but yours are still seedlings mine didn't show these cupped up leaves till i was like 4-5 nodes in.

Alas your reply came too slow to stop this happening! (please see pics below)









Now I have taken action that will either remedy the problems or kill the plant. I have repotted again into a better less dense soil that has a nice PH of 6.3
I have also removed the plant from under lights until it stops being a seedling or dies. It is going outdoors in a nice warm/hot climate during the day. At night I might have under a single grow light positioned at least 8 inches away.
I think a combination of bad, compacted soil and lights too close to the plant was locking up and burning the poor blighter.
The problem was I'm growing with another plant that loves loads of light so was putting them side by side thinking they couldn't get enough lights and since I'm using CFL's I thought being 2-4 inches away from multiple 65w bulbs was acceptable. Clearly it was not.
Now I'd love it if you could look carefully at the pics and tell me it is something different but now the action has been taken and only time will tell.

 

[legalizeDK]

.....

 

[stihgnobevoli]

in the pictures you just posted it looks like nute burn.

sorry to tell you but they might not make it. water with plain water only for a while and see if they recover.

 

[dj_greenthumb]

My leaves are super droopy and new ones are curling... Is the problem:
A. Overwatering (Watering twice a week, soaking them through)
B. Too low humidity (20%)
C. Temperature changes/wind burn (the intake grabs air from Canada winter, circulating fans are always one)

 

[stihgnobevoli]

pictures speak a thousand words. why didn't you start your own thread?

 

[Ultra Current]

You will have to perform tests to elimate all the variables so that you can get to the problem. First ill tell you what i dont like. Your finger test is a very poor way to see if your plants need water. All the books that suggest this technique are giving bad information. The best way to know if your plants need water is to hand weigh the pots. They should be the same weight they were when you first put the soil into the pot before you watered. Hand weigh your pots for the future.

Your soil looks like it has no perlite. It is not letting a lot of air in there and yoir pots are rateher large for seedlings. When you use large pots for seedlings you do not want to saturate it and should only give them a small amount of water until the roots take up more space.

Now for the tests. Take an empty container and fill it with your soil. Very slowly pour water into it until half a pint of water comes out of it. The water that comes out needs to be tested with your ppm and pH meter to see how hot your soil is and what the pH is. The water that comes out of the bottom of your pot is called run off. Perform this test and you will know whats up.

 

[Reg Dixon]

Latest pics from the infirm NL auto.. Have put it back outside where it was doing ok until I moved it inside under the lights. Have also repotted it into something approximating decent soil.
Nothing has changed. Not expecting much to happen for quite a while now after the repotting anyway. My main questions are should I just leave it for now until it gets quite a bit bigger or dies?
At what point should I be bringing it inside under the lights? I'm afraid to risk it now after what happened last time I brought it under them.
How does the new soil look?

 

[mysophilia]

Its a K def.. The plant is trying to Respirate ... If you look at your leaves you should be able to see very small pin holes ... That is due to the cells drying out.. Not able to transpire H20 due to K missing.. Hope this link will help you out with some more explaning
( http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/dc6794.html)

 

[stihgnobevoli]

its possible i suppose, but based on the latest picture it looks overwatered or underfed. at this point i would just wait till the pot dries and it starts growing again or it dies like you said. its a wait and see game now.

 

[Reg Dixon]

UPDATE - maybe new problem!

UPDATE - maybe new problem!

Just a quick update. The NL appears to be recovering after being repotted into something approximating a decent soil mix. Thanks for all the repies.
Looks like it might even live!

Now I have a new concern. Both the NL auto and especially the Tangerine Dream are 'bleaching' a little. They look rather a pale shade of green. Especially the TD compared to a new blue widow seedling I have going.
Is this natural or is it the sign of a developing problem? Pics taken very recently are enclosed as well as a shot of the blue widow seedling for comparason.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

prolly just hungry, if you fed it already just watch it and see if more of the older leaves start turning pale green/yellow. if so up the dose.