Late flower plant is confusing me

[Themagnata]

Ok so im pheno Hunting and I think my plants are stalled. This strains are supposed to be ready in 9-10 weeks and I'm on week 14 already.

The leaves are very Yellow, because I thought the plants were supposed to be ready at week 10 i started flushing from week 8 until week 11. I just then realized the plants need longer to finish and then I started feeding them again. I've checked for trichomes and it's like 50 are clear and 50 are milky. No brown trichomes. Some pistills on some strains are still white.

I've done a lot of different stuff that i think a lot of growers don't do and may find weird, like small pots and not PHing my water, but I'm pretty sure you can grow good weed this way because I've seen some threads. i just have to dial in with this way of growing, i'm trying to find out whats the cause of my plants not wanting to finish.

I'm growing in a 5x5 foot tent

2x 600w Lamps

Sog grow in 1gallon pots
Biobizz nutes (the complete line) no pH water

I follow the vpd chart and the temperatures and RH were more stable throughout this grow

I water when I see the plants are asking for water( i think this was a big mistake ) and I also think I've been watering too much water

There were a couple of times where I opened the tent and all the leaves were down like the plant was about to die, but after watering they came back.

i also have some plants in week 5 in this same tent that are going well, well at least yet.. don't mind these, my concern is the more advanced ones

 

[Creeperpark]

Once the nutrient sequence is broken it's hard to get dialed back in, especially late in flowering. Those yellow leaves won't turn back to green because the plant started using its mobile nutrients stored in the leaves. She will still give you some good smoke, just let the yellow leave drop off naturally.

 

[Themagnata]

Once the nutrient sequence is broken it's hard to get dialed back in, especially late in flowering. Those yellow leaves won't turn back to green because the plant started using its mobile nutrients stored in the leaves. She will still give you some good smoke, just let the yellow leave drop off naturally.

Will the trichomes still go amber with the plant in such condition?

 

[Creeperpark]

Above you ask what is the cause of my plants not wanting to finish? If you up-potted to 2 or 3-gallon pots right before you flower you could better manage the nutrient and water intake. The plants would be easier to manage with less maintenance to maintain between waterings. Just for fun on the next grow up-pot one or two plants into 3-gallon pots just for learning.

 

[Switcher56]

Above you ask what is the cause of my plants not wanting to finish? If you up-potted to 2 or 3-gallon pots right before you flower you could better manage the nutrient and water intake. The plants would be easier to manage with less maintenance to maintain between waterings. Just for fun on the next grow up-pot one or two plants into 3-gallon pots just for learning.

^^ what he says ^^

 

[rolandomota]

I say harvest already their done

 

[Themagnata]

^^ what he says ^^

That's a good ideia

 

[Themagnata]

I say harvest already their done

Even with so many clear trichomes?

 

[Switcher56]

That's a good ideia

I run 3gal cloth pots, with HP Promix (augmented with an extra 25% perlite) under 600W LED. They drink 1.5l every 3 days in a 3x3x6' tent. Works like a charm I, W D D F D D W, Where: Dry, Feed, Water. The reason I have them on a strict schedule as such, a component necessary for good health is a good supply of oxygen in the root zone.

 

[Themagnata]

On the day I took the other photos i watered the plants and because they were so yellow I gave them too much nutes, the plants are looking a bit burnt what a stupid thing it was!

Here are some pictures:

 

[Themagnata]

Anybody know what those brown leaves are?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Anybody know what those brown leaves are?

The deficiency is progressive from lower leaves to higher, so it's a mobile nutrient deficiency (N, P, K, Mg), the leaves are clawing down (N). And the plants are in flowering, where I've seen most nitrogen deficicies.

Nitrogen for flowering is ammonium nitrate, rather than nitrogen nitrate which leads to boron deficiency in flowering.

If it's nitrogen lockout from too many nutrients, then it is locked out by too much potassium (K), boron or copper.

 

[St. Phatty]

I run 3gal cloth pots, with HP Promix (augmented with an extra 25% perlite) under 600W LED. They drink 1.5l every 3 days in a 3x3x6' tent. Works like a charm I, W D D F D D W, Where: Dry, Feed, Water. The reason I have them on a strict schedule as such, a component necessary for good health is a good supply of oxygen in the root zone.

It would be interesting to measure the air space in a 32 gallon pot.

I can hear the air being pulled in, 20% Oxygen 80% Nitrogen, when I water them.

If I put a big pan underneath, and watered them till it was completely wet but not flooded, then let it drain out the bottom, it would give me an idea of how much airspace is left in the soil.

I figure about 2 gallons of airspace in a 32 gallon pot.

 

[HempKat]

Okay now first off you say you've seen people grow in small pots and never ph test and they do fine but I'm pretty sure you're not getting the full story and so if you're not duplicating the whole process of those other successful growers you can't guarantee success. Some growers have been growing for so long they just learn how to spot where their ph is off and adjust as needed without ever testing. For them it often becomes a matter of pride that they can have a successful grow without ever testing the ph and I've even seen some over the years talk down to people that still ph test as if they were some how not competent growers if they have to test. That's just a bunch of crap though, I mean if they can get by without ph testing fine, they can take a pat on the back out of petty cash and be on their way. Testing your ph is just a tool. Ph imbalances can look like other issues that are not ph related, so all testing the ph does is help you to more quickly identify a problem correctly and get your grow back on track. The most common thing a ph imbalance mimics is a deficiency because when the ph is off it can lock out certain nutrients. The nutrients are there in you medium it's just not getting taken up by the plant. If you just assume it's a deficiency and start giving stronger doses of nutrients you're just building up a toxic level of nutrients in the soil if it is a ph issue causing lockout. Then lets say one day you unknowingly get the ph back in balance and suddenly the plant can access that toxic level of nutrients, well then you'll just succeed in burning the shit out of your plants and then you'll be really confused. When you see a problem developing in your plant one of the first things you should do is check the ph. It may not be a ph issue but now you know that for sure and you're that much closer to fixing the problem. Or if it is a ph issue you can correct it and get back on track with minimal damage. Yeah I get it, we all want to be Pot Guru's that can just sense what's wrong and fix it but that can take years and years of trial and error with many failures before you reach that point. There is no shame in approaching your grow in a more scientific less spiritual manner.

Now on the matter of pot size a one gallon pot is fine for the bulk of the veg cycle, I can't tell for sure how big your plants are from your pictures but they look to big to take into flower in a one gallon pot. The way you describe walking into your grow room with all the leaves wilted and they spring right back when watered, that's a classic sign of a root bound plant. Many leaves yellowing and dropping off is also a classic sign. Basically the roots have grown so dense in the pot that the plant is choking itself and making it difficult to get what it needs from the soil, this will stall growth. You can try watering more often even everyday if that's what it takes to keep the leaves from wilting but the plant will still struggle. Now what some people do is they'll plant a seed in a one gallon pot and shortly after it sprouts they'll put it in 12/12 the plant won't get as big as it should if given a proper veg but since the first 2-3 weeks of veg is what is known as the stretch phase, a plant grown this way can still get to a decent size. There are two reasons growers do this, one they have a limited space and purposely don't want their plants reaching their full growth potential and/or they're impatient and don't want to take the time in the veg cycle. Typically people that go straight to 12/12 already know the sex of their plants because they're growing from clones or using feminized seed and so they don't need to worry about if any will be males which usually gets sorted out in the veg phase. Growing them that way, going to 12/12 right away you stand a better chance of getting by in just a one gallon pot. Although that's no guarantee people that do things like that have probably done it more then once and no what to expect. It's still possible your plant can get rootbound going straight to 12/12 in a one gallon pot. Different strains have different rates of growth, as such some might do fine in a one gallon put while others will struggle. Now me personally I've always had 8 feet of head space for growing and as such size wasn't a major concern (although some strains usually sativas that's not enough space) Any way I would start out in a tiny pot (solo cup size) then transfer to a one gallon after a couple of weeks and then after two months of veg transplant to either a 3 gallon or 5 gallon pot and then go to 12/12. Once you get past the stretch phase (first 2-3 weeks of flower) root growth slows down dramatically and therefore you're not likely to get rootbound during flower if you transplant to a bigger pot just before flower. Technically you can transplant while in flower but it will probably shock your plant and slow it down for a few days although that's still better then letting it be rootbound thru most of flower. Also since root development slows down after the first 2-3 weeks in flower, if you transplant in flower probably most of the new space you give the plant will go to waste. Although again that's better then letting the plant choke itself out thru all of flower.

Now as for there still being a lot of clear trichomes there are tricks people claim that helps speed up the conversion such as changing the light from 12on/12off to 11on/13off. Also if you do a proper slow dry and cure most of those clear trichomes will turn cloudy along the way. Once all moisture is out of the plant, whatever the triches are at is pretty much it. Which is why you want it to be a slow dry (a week or so) and a slow cure (about 2 months). If you're shooting for that 50/50 cloudy/amber goal I personally say forget that. When the triches are cloudy that's when they're at the peak of ripeness. When they turn amber is when they're starting to degrade. I've tried to get that 50/50 cloudy/amber and never got close but as long as I had at least 90% cloudy I've always been happy with the result.

Now it's very possible your ph was fine this whole time and all your problems was that the plant became rootbound. So when you do finally harvest your plant you might want to check out your root ball to confirm whether it was or not. I'll attach a picture and if your root balls look like this then that's more or less what your whole problem was.

​

example of a rootbound plant image widget

 

[Themagnata]

Okay now first off you say you've seen people grow in small pots and never ph test and they do fine but I'm pretty sure you're not getting the full story and so if you're not duplicating the whole process of those other successful growers you can't guarantee success. Some growers have been growing for so long they just learn how to spot where their ph is off and adjust as needed without ever testing. For them it often becomes a matter of pride that they can have a successful grow without ever testing the ph and I've even seen some over the years talk down to people that still ph test as if they were some how not competent growers if they have to test. That's just a bunch of crap though, I mean if they can get by without ph testing fine, they can take a pat on the back out of petty cash and be on their way. Testing your ph is just a tool. Ph imbalances can look like other issues that are not ph related, so all testing the ph does is help you to more quickly identify a problem correctly and get your grow back on track. The most common thing a ph imbalance mimics is a deficiency because when the ph is off it can lock out certain nutrients. The nutrients are there in you medium it's just not getting taken up by the plant. If you just assume it's a deficiency and start giving stronger doses of nutrients you're just building up a toxic level of nutrients in the soil if it is a ph issue causing lockout. Then lets say one day you unknowingly get the ph back in balance and suddenly the plant can access that toxic level of nutrients, well then you'll just succeed in burning the shit out of your plants and then you'll be really confused. When you see a problem developing in your plant one of the first things you should do is check the ph. It may not be a ph issue but now you know that for sure and you're that much closer to fixing the problem. Or if it is a ph issue you can correct it and get back on track with minimal damage. Yeah I get it, we all want to be Pot Guru's that can just sense what's wrong and fix it but that can take years and years of trial and error with many failures before you reach that point. There is no shame in approaching your grow in a more scientific less spiritual manner.

Now on the matter of pot size a one gallon pot is fine for the bulk of the veg cycle, I can't tell for sure how big your plants are from your pictures but they look to big to take into flower in a one gallon pot. The way you describe walking into your grow room with all the leaves wilted and they spring right back when watered, that's a classic sign of a root bound plant. Many leaves yellowing and dropping off is also a classic sign. Basically the roots have grown so dense in the pot that the plant is choking itself and making it difficult to get what it needs from the soil, this will stall growth. You can try watering more often even everyday if that's what it takes to keep the leaves from wilting but the plant will still struggle. Now what some people do is they'll plant a seed in a one gallon pot and shortly after it sprouts they'll put it in 12/12 the plant won't get as big as it should if given a proper veg but since the first 2-3 weeks of veg is what is known as the stretch phase, a plant grown this way can still get to a decent size. There are two reasons growers do this, one they have a limited space and purposely don't want their plants reaching their full growth potential and/or they're impatient and don't want to take the time in the veg cycle. Typically people that go straight to 12/12 already know the sex of their plants because they're growing from clones or using feminized seed and so they don't need to worry about if any will be males which usually gets sorted out in the veg phase. Growing them that way, going to 12/12 right away you stand a better chance of getting by in just a one gallon pot. Although that's no guarantee people that do things like that have probably done it more then once and no what to expect. It's still possible your plant can get rootbound going straight to 12/12 in a one gallon pot. Different strains have different rates of growth, as such some might do fine in a one gallon put while others will struggle. Now me personally I've always had 8 feet of head space for growing and as such size wasn't a major concern (although some strains usually sativas that's not enough space) Any way I would start out in a tiny pot (solo cup size) then transfer to a one gallon after a couple of weeks and then after two months of veg transplant to either a 3 gallon or 5 gallon pot and then go to 12/12. Once you get past the stretch phase (first 2-3 weeks of flower) root growth slows down dramatically and therefore you're not likely to get rootbound during flower if you transplant to a bigger pot just before flower. Technically you can transplant while in flower but it will probably shock your plant and slow it down for a few days although that's still better then letting it be rootbound thru most of flower. Also since root development slows down after the first 2-3 weeks in flower, if you transplant in flower probably most of the new space you give the plant will go to waste. Although again that's better then letting the plant choke itself out thru all of flower.

Now as for there still being a lot of clear trichomes there are tricks people claim that helps speed up the conversion such as changing the light from 12on/12off to 11on/13off. Also if you do a proper slow dry and cure most of those clear trichomes will turn cloudy along the way. Once all moisture is out of the plant, whatever the triches are at is pretty much it. Which is why you want it to be a slow dry (a week or so) and a slow cure (about 2 months). If you're shooting for that 50/50 cloudy/amber goal I personally say forget that. When the triches are cloudy that's when they're at the peak of ripeness. When they turn amber is when they're starting to degrade. I've tried to get that 50/50 cloudy/amber and never got close but as long as I had at least 90% cloudy I've always been happy with the result.

Now it's very possible your ph was fine this whole time and all your problems was that the plant became rootbound. So when you do finally harvest your plant you might want to check out your root ball to confirm whether it was or not. I'll attach a picture and if your root balls look like this then that's more or less what your whole problem was.


​

example of a rootbound plant image widget

Well the thing with the not PHing my water is because i read that people doing organic grows don't need to pH the water because supposedly the microbes in the soil take care of that..

People say that using pH down will damage the bacteria in the soil that correct the PH.

I only use Biobizz nutrients and I add worm casting teas occasionally..

Even the Biobizz page says that you don't need to correct PH when using their nutrients if your water is not too much out of range.. my water pH sits at 7.8 but I never measured it after letting it sit for 24hours.. i don't know if this changes the PH..

Now I don't know how to go about it... If I'm growing this way ( only using Biobizz and compost teas) will testing the pH of my run off still be valid in this situation?

And would that be the right way to know if my pH is out of range? And if so how can I correct it?
​​​​​​

And about the plants being Rootbound.. well i harvested 2 plants and the roots didn't look rootbound at all! I will take some pictures later And post it here so you can make a better judgement..

I saw threads where people grow in such small posts but they were using other nutrients I can't remember..

I also have other plants in the same tent that are in week 6 flowering, the plants are in 1gallon pots and look beautiful and happy. I don't know if the problems of being root bound only show up later, or maybe the plants didn't get root bound yet.. or maybe the problem is not even rootbound but something else, like watering too much at one time, and letting the soil dry up too much in between waterings.

The plants I took pictures from before are looking worser by the day though.. I'm confused as hell as to what I should do

 

[Themagnata]

Also all this plants are clones, i let the clones veg for 2-3 weeks and then flower.. i also have a lot of different phenos and I see they are reacting different, some plants look unbothered and others look stressed out

 

[Themagnata]

I just took some pictures of the root system of one plant i harvested about a week ago
does this plant look root bounded? I'm not sure

 

[HempKat]

Yeah they do say when growing organically you don't have to worry about ph as much but I always too that to mean the kind of organic where you take you medium and you mix it with bone meal, blood meal, kelp guano etc. Growing with something like Biobizz (I've never used it) might be enough of a difference from doing your own soil mix that does change that rule about ph. Is that if you don't test you lose out on a way to diagnose your plant fairly quickly and that could potentially have you chasing down the wring clues. If you don't want to ph that's no skin off my nose. I mean it's not like I work for a company that makes ph testing equipment nor do I own stock in any company that does. All I know is you first reported this problem 5 days ago and you say it's getting worse had you ph tested back when the problem first came up you could have ruled out a bunch of potential issue and maybe even have things solved by now. Maybe you're resisting the idea because you priced some ph pans and found there were expensive which they can be but the expensive ones usually last longer and are more accurate, You don't have to use an expensive pen though. I've seen growers reliably ph test their grow with a little $10 kit you can find at a pet store. AS far as your water yes, there are situations where it can be good to let your water sit for a period of time and things will change for the better. I don't know if the ph changes though, if I remember correctly the letting it sit is for treated water with high levels of chlorine in it. The chlorine will dissipate over time when allowed to sit while exposed to air. I've always used well water that was untreated and came out of the tap at a perfect soil ph of 6.5. You're say yours is coming out at 7.8 which is quite high. Now it might be that your nutrients and or the microbes in your soil are taking care of the problem but we'll never know for sure if you're not testing ph. How to test the run off is very simple you water your plants until water comes out of the pot (runoff). If you have a pen you can just stick the tester end directly in the run off and have your results a few seconds later. If you use the $10 pet store variety ph kit that usually involves taking a dropper, sucking up some of the runoff, squirting it into a vial adding a few drops of testing solution, wait for the color to change and then compare that color to a color coded care that comes with the kit. The whole process takes less then a minute. Okay so you've heard ph down will harm the microbes well guess what those microbes are plant like and they can also be harmed by ph that is too high or too low but that aside there are organic things that can be used to adjust ph but you have to be careful because some of them can make big changes if you use too much unfortunately I don't know what they are other then one of them is vinegar which is not recommended because it can dramatically drop the ph more then you want. I've also heard it doesn't last very long and will allow the ph to go right back up. Look when doing it properly you shouldn't need too much ph down, not concentrations so high it's likely to kill microbes. Also you asked about can you ph while using teas. Yes, you can. You're testing runoff and so that's presumably after you've added the tea. You're testing the run off because whatever the ph is coming out of the pot is most likely the same ph that the roots are experiencing. Watering the stuff before it goes in is kind of useless because what it is before it goes in and after it comes out might be two different things. It's possible that there are things in your soil that change the ph. So you test what is coming out and then adjust what's going in accordingly with the goal of getting the ph where it needs to be when it comes out because again the fluid draining out is most likely going to be at the same ph that your roots are seeing.

As for pot size and potentially being rootbound, okay it's possible that your plants are not rootbound I didn't say they definitely were I said that the way your plants are behaving (leaves wilting until you water and then spring right back usually only happens on of two ways, either the plant is rootbound or you're not checking the plants as often as you should. There is the third possibility that you're not giving them enough water but I left that out because you seem to think you're giving too much. Most of the time when a plant isn't root bound you'll need to water it every other day. In the beginning when the roots haven't spread out enough it might be a little longer like every third day. You said the plants in question are in week 14 of flower so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the roots have spread out in the pot plenty and/or might be rootbound. If the plants are rootbound they usually need to be watered every day some times in even less then a day if you don't get in to check on your plants before the water gets used up or you're plants aren't rootbound and you're waitin more then every other day before you water again then you're not checking often enough. Whether it's because they're rootbound or you're not checking often enough either way that process of the leaves wilting and then spring back to life when you water, that's very stressful to the plant and some leaves will die and drop of the plant and the ones that don't will look like something is wrong Which something is wrong, your plant is wilting on a regular basis. So you tell me, if you're waiting longer then every other day you need to check your plants daily and try to water just before they wilt. If you're needing to water every day and it wilts well then your plant is almost certainly root bound. If it's not root bound then most likely there is a ph issue that is locking out nutrients that will also make leaves die off and look oddly. Now on the issue of pot size, you say the plants are at 14 weeks. That's a long time to spend in a small one gallon pot That's not factoring in anytime you might have vegged which means they've been in a one gallon pot for 4 months or more. Yeah maybe you've seen other people use one gallon pots and get great results But I bet they didn't let them flower for 14 weeks or more. Lets just say they did though unless you are doing everything exactly the same as them then the same size pot might not work for you. To really make a judgement on whether your plant is rootbound I need you to detail every thing you did from start to finish. Did you start from seed or clone, did you veg for any length of time and if so how long. How old were they when you switched to 12/12? Just to give you an idea of what needs to be factored in. I've seen one gallon pots become rootbound in less then two months, yours have gone for over 4 months or more then twice that time. It's just a matter of doing the math.

 

[f-e]

Root ball is interesting. Not very white, and the stronger roots are not at the bottom. Like the bottom is too wet for them to get established down there.

 

[HempKat]

Also all this plants are clones, i let the clones veg for 2-3 weeks and then flower.. i also have a lot of different phenos and I see they are reacting different, some plants look unbothered and others look stressed out

Okay I didn't go far enough in the thread, I see you've answered some of the questions I have. Okay the pictures do not, I repeat do not look like a rootbound plant but now let me ask you this, did that plant show the same problems? Did that plant stay in flower for about 14 weeks before you harvested? Is that plant the same strain as the ones that are having problems? You did say you're growing multiple strains and different strains can have different growth characteristics. The average plant that goes 8-9 weeks will stop putting out much in the way of roots after it gets past the stretch phase of flower (first two to three weeks of flower) If you vegged that plant for 2-3 weeks then after stretch that's 4-6 weeks which is about right to end up with a root ball like the one in the picture when you harvest. If the other ones though, the ones with the problems are full blown sativas then their stretch phase and the time the roots keep growing are likely to be longer but most full blown sativas need to flower for 16 weeks and in some cases more, before they're ready to harvest and that long in a one gallon pot might be too long even with just only 2-3 weeks of veg. If you plan on taking a full blown sativa to harvest in a one gallon pot, starting from clone you should probably skip the 2-3 weeks of veg and go straight to 12/12.