late Female Bananas

[Brownpants]

Hey Everybody I have some questions about using the late bananas from a female 3 weeks past harvest time. Is the pollen viable? And does the pollen drop by itself? (like male pollen sacs). I want to self a Very Berry Surprise Pheno I like.....I know...... it was selfed already once, and now I will be selfing it again. But, the results should be interesting at least :smile:

Thanks in advance
-Brownpants-

 

[Guest]

hey there, the pollen from female induced male organs... well bananas... is very viable... just like any male pollen, but it has the characteristic of only producing female seeds... keep it in a ziploc bag, in the fridge and it can keep its viability for 2-3 months... this is why you have no choice of polllinating your next batch with it...

as with selfing an already selfed plant, i personally don't think it's the best idea... there is way more risk that the seeds produced lead to a majority of hermies, or even sterile seeds... we have to understand that what we are doing with genetics today, will affect those of tomorrow and all years ahead for the cannabis plant... accommodation to the indoor environment has already caused a lot of stress to the cannabis family... but with the breeding of pure landraces, indica and sativa, master breeders have worked very hard to sustain a healthy genetic pool...

anyways, just my 2 cents... if you only do it as a personal experiment, and don't spread these seeds around... do you have any other genetics you may grow out and cross these with? think it out, and keep it green!

peace.

 

[guineapig]

clip the bananas and let them fall into a small square of wax paper.....i would advise against plastic bags because the static electricity might make the pollen stick to the sides.....then using a small horsehair brush you carefully swab the bananas and carefully apply the pollen to whichever VBS branch you want.....

that was how we did it in the institute for plant genetics....

now where do you buy a tiny horsehair brush?

peace and plants, gp out :heart:

 

[omega7]

Late male flowers are what Soma uses to make his feminized beans. Not sure if thats how he still does, but I remember reading it from him somewhere. He lets the plants go approx 2 weeks after their normal cut time and then uses the resulting bananas.

 

[fluoro funkster]

yeah man , you are going to have to do your pollinating next grow , just dry your plants normally & pick the banana's off ..if some are hard to open just slice them with a razor & leave them so pollen doesn't come off on your fingers & contaminates( i think i spelled that right )..the pollen

really you should not handle the pollen or sacks with you finger's ..when you'll do your actual pollinating , you'll get to the pollen then

but it's not for sure that you will get fem seed ...since there are other little detail's that should also be done

1 for example using a very high pH at around 7.6 to 7.8 for the last couple of weeks ...the rest ill let you explore by your-self & hey with some good luck man ..you might even find a way to breed even better fem seed

enjoy the harvest ..peace

 

[Brownpants]

Thanks for the replies guys, it is good to know at least the pollen will be able to make seeds. I have tried doing this before with another strain using bananas I found after drying the plants....it didn't work. Either the pollen wasn't mature yet or the drying of the bud sterilized the pollen. I have made seeds before with no problems, but it was easier to get pollen from males. The pollen sacs would open up and then start dropping the pollen.
So, I guess what I need to know now is, how do I know when the banana is mature? When it starts dropping pollen?

PS: I am not planning on spreading any of these seeds around....I know it will be quite the mix of genetic oddities. Lots of bad combinations, but maybe a few good ones, and maybe even a superstar!!!!!!!

 

[Brownpants]

This is the banana in question....it is the only one I can see on the plant.





How do I know when it is mature?

 

[DankBank]

Odds are 90%+ that it is mature right now. It's too late to pollenate the plant it's growing on... but you could use it on something else (seeds need about 30+ days to mature).
If you remove it carefully, you could store it (use silica gel in the same container to keep it dry or it won't last more than a few days). Store it dark and cool. I wouldn't freeze it. Let it sit open on a plate or something in a cupboard for a couple days before you store it with the silica gel (this way it will dry before it goes into storage... storing it wet will kill the pollen very quickly).
The amount of pollen is so small that basically the only way to use that pollen would be to (very gently) tear one end off of the banana.. kind of like cutting a cigar but on a much smaller scale of course. You can literally drag the open end across the pistills you wish to pollenate and/or rub it so that it begins to further break down and release the pollen that's inside. All offspring will be female/hermie. Very Berry F2's would likely be cool... plus all the beans will be female (or herm) so you can grow them out confident that they'll be girls & produce for ya.
If you store that banana, don't tear the end until you're going to use it. Such a small amount of pollen will be nearly impossible to isolate/use if you try to tear it open and "poor it out" before storage. I recently STS'd one of my personal strains to get fem'd pollen, and only got a few nanners to come around... I harvested nanners just like that one and can tell you from personal experience that there's such a small amount in that one nanner that ya don't want to tear it open til you use it. Remove it very carefully from the plant or it's going to rip open right then and there. If it does tear, just do the best to store it anyway. Even if a little pollen comes out it will stil contain enough to make some beans. As for your question about it dropping or releasing... it might or it might not. But judging from the color & size of that nanner it's totally mature and can be removed for use or storage right now.

Good luck!
db

 

[Brownpants]

Thanks DB! That is the information I was looking for. I have a couple VBS clones I placed in my flowering room recently, should have some flowers in a week or two. Then I can pollinate them with this banana. My VBS pheno is frosty, potent, violet and has a faint berry taste, it is hard to go hermie as well, this is my second attempt at getting a banana from it. Lots of potential I think!
Thanks again for the info, firsthand experience is always the best information.
-BP-

 

[Guest]

here is soma's article about making female seeds... he goes into more detail in his book, but this sums it up pretty well

RODELIZATION: SOMA'S WAY TO FEMALE SEEDS

Story by Soma

Creating feminized cannabis seeds is an art. Just like art, there are a few different methods of application. I have written about some of my different methods of making seeds in previous HIGH TIMES articles. I have used gibberellic acid, pH stress, light stress, and fertilizer stress to force my female plants to make seeds. All of these methods are harsh on the plants, and some, like the gibberellic acid, are not organic. In my search for cleaner, more earth-friendly ways of working with the cannabis plant, I have found a new way to make feminized seeds.

Feminized seeds occur as a result of stress, rather than genetics. All cannabis plants can and will make male flowers under stress. Certain strains like a higher pH, some a lower one. Some like a lot of food, some like much less. There is quite a lot of variety in marijuana genetics, and you can’t treat every plant the same way.

It takes many harvests before you really get to know a particular strain. Just like getting to know human friends, it takes time. I have grown the same strains for close to a decade, and am truly getting to know every nuance the different plants exhibit. I can recognize them from a distance. I must say that I get a lot of help from my friends, both in making seeds and in learning new and better ways of working with this sacred plant.

I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.

To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.

In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.

For the next phase, you need to have a separate crop that’s already 2 1/2 weeks into flowering. Take your sealed bags of pollen out of the fridge, and proceed to impregnate your new crop of females. To do this, you must first match the female plant and the pollen from the same strain in the previous crop. Shut all the fans in the growroom down. Then take a very fine paintbrush, dip it in the bag of pollen, and paint it on the female flower. Do this to each different strain you have growing together. I have done it with up to 10 different kinds in the same room with great success.

I use the lower flowers to make seeds, leaving the top colas seedless for smoking. This method takes time (two crops), but is completely organic, and lets you have great-quality smoke at the same time you make your female seeds. If you’re one of those growers who’s never grown seeds for fear of not having something good to smoke, you will love this method.

You can also use this pollen to make new female crosses by cross-pollinating. The older females with the male bananas can be brought into the room with the younger, unpollinated females after they are three weeks into flowering. Turn all of the circulation fans on high, and the little bits of pollen will proceed to make it around the room. Do this for several days. Six to seven weeks later, you will have ripe 100% feminized seeds; not nearly as many as a male plant would make, but enough to start over somewhere else with the same genetics.

Soma.

 

[3legdog]

I read about Rodelazation yrs ago & have been tryn it for years. Some strains...most i've found the late forming singles/doubles are sterile & no matter how you store them at whatever stage of maturity the will not work...what ive experienced.

Very good post btw DB & kerozene.

Now to your question about the VBS that i personally have 3 phenos that selfed again & since i let them go over 60 days i got about 50 or more mature seeds to play with. Nice fully developed too, which was a suprise







I actually got some from both the green & purple phenos & should be interesting to see what they produce...all female should be for sure.

Best of luck Bp & i hope the pollen storing works for ya