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L.A. strictly interprets restriction on pot dispensaries

bigbrokush

Active member
L.A. strictly interprets restriction on pot dispensaries
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pot-dispensaries-20100829,0,7696561.story

The city seeks to shut medical marijuana shops whose ownership or management has changed at all, for any reason, since 2007.

David Vayntrub says the city might be trying to shut his dispensary because his wife’s job has changed. “I’m still here. Same manager. Same owner,” he said. “We truly tried to follow this ordinance.” (Katie Falkenberg, For The Times / August 29, 2010)

Map: Most L.A. pot dispensaries ordered closed
By John Hoeffel, Los Angeles Times

August 29, 2010
E-mail Print Share Text Size la-me-pot-dispensaries-20100829

When the Los Angeles City Council adopted its medical marijuana ordinance, it aimed to rout unscrupulous dispensary operators whose unruly customers irritated residents and operators who opened up willy-nilly across the city, ignoring a ban on new stores.

But the ordinance has snared operators who appear to have tried hard to adhere to state law and the city's rules. Among them are some of the most politically active operators whose dispensaries are considered model operations. Last week, the city sued these dispensaries and dozens of others and asked a judge to rule that they could be shut down.

The ordinance, which went into effect in June, allowed dispensaries that registered with the city by Nov. 13, 2007, to apply to stay open, but it required them to have "the same ownership and management." The city attorney's office has decided that means the owners and managers must be the same people who held those positions three years ago.

When Barry Kramer opened California Patients Alliance in April 2007, he ran it alone. "I was the manager. I was the operator. I was the secretary. I was everything," he said. Now, with about 1,500 members, the Beverly Grove dispensary has added two managers. "I can't be here seven days a week," Kramer said. "I don't see any legal basis for saying a business is not allowed to expand."

Under the city's interpretation of the ordinance, if a dispensary's manager died, quit or was fired and was then replaced, it must close. If the business grew and added managers, it must close. If it shrank and let managers go, it must close. If it was sold to new owners, it must close.

"It makes it completely irrational. This is life. Things happen," said David Welch, a lawyer who represents more than 60 dispensaries. "It almost puts an impossible burden on collectives."

Stewart Richlin, another attorney for dispensaries, noted that the city did not tell registered dispensaries in 2007 that they could not change owners or managers, and he pointed to a 2009 planning department memo that says the city "does not prohibit ownership changes."

"This is America," he said. "Every business can be transferred."

The city attorney's office said it must interpret the ordinance strictly, saying any discretion would expose the ordinance to legal attacks. "We are constantly thinking of the greater good, which is an enforceable ordinance," said Jane Usher, a special assistant city attorney who helped draft the law and is defending it against 32 lawsuits filed by dispensaries that were ordered to shut down.

Usher said the language that the City Council adopted is unambiguous: no change in ownership, no change in management. "There was a very clear road map," she said, "and I don't know why dispensaries didn't follow it, but I assume they didn't follow it because they couldn't."

David and Irina Vayntrub learned last week that their dispensary, Absolute Herbal Pain Solutions, was ineligible to stay open.

"I was shocked," said David Vayntrub, holding up a point-by-point summary of the ordinance that his wife had typed up and that he keeps on his desk. "This is in front of me every day."

The Vayntrubs think the city disqualified their dispensary because Irina, who they said has been involved since the store opened in January 2007, is now the secretary of the board. Under the city attorney's interpretation, that might be a management change. They are not certain, though; they said city officials did not respond to the five voice messages they left last week.

"I'm still here. Same manager. Same owner," said David Vayntrub, who said he works at the store on South La Brea Avenue every day. "We truly tried to follow this ordinance."

The city clerk last week notified 128 of the 169 registered dispensaries that they were ineligible to remain open. The city filed a lawsuit against the ineligible dispensaries, but they will be allowed to operate until a judge considers the suit.

According to the suit, 120 were ineligible because of management changes. Of those, 58 were disqualified solely on that basis; the others also had ownership changes and other issues.

The clerk's office is trying to figure out how to respond to distraught dispensary operators. "I'm trying to iron that out now," Holly Wolcott, its executive officer, said last week.

Councilman Ed Reyes, who oversaw the drafting of the ordinance, said the city needed to "stick with the letter of the law" but promised to assess the effect on dispensaries.

Some disqualified operators will be familiar to Reyes because they have been active at City Hall for years. All of them are original operators and were excluded for management changes.

Besides Kramer, they include Yamileth Bolanos, who runs PureLife Alternative Wellness Center and heads a group of about 60 original dispensaries; Michael Backes with Cornerstone Research Collective, which focuses on severely ill patients; James Shaw with Arts District Healing Center, who runs the Union of Medical Marijuana Patients; and Bill Leahy, who manages the Farmacy stores, which were started by a pharmacist, JoAnna LaForce.

"I can't tell you how surprised we all were," said Leahy, adding that the city is targeting registered dispensaries when it has failed to shut down numerous unauthorized outlets. "Most of them have reopened again and the city's done very little about it."

Some ineligible dispensaries appear to be victims of a Catch-22 or two.

Almost a year after dispensaries were required to register in Los Angeles, the state attorney general advised that they needed to be run as nonprofit collectives. Many were not. So they reorganized as nonprofit corporations, a change that replaced an owner with a board of directors. Under the city attorney's interpretation of the ordinance, that may have disqualified them.

This summer, when the city started to determine whether the registered dispensaries were qualified to remain open, it sent them a letter asking for "the name(s) of the collective's management." Because the ordinance defines managers as anyone responsible for "organization, registration, supervision, or oversight," some dispensaries included names of employees that were not on their original registration forms, which may have disqualified them.

More than a few wonder whether it was a trap. "We all knew they were looking for some slimy little technicality, and this seems to be it," Kramer said.

Chris Fusco, a consultant who knows the ins and outs of City Hall, said that when he inquired about the letter, he was told by officials at the clerk's office that an exact match was required. But others, including the Vayntrubs, said they were not.

"The administration of the application process is just like nothing I have ever seen or known or imagined," Fusco said. "It's a black curtain, and what's behind it, no one will tell you."
 
This is insane and really wrong! Why should it matter if the manager or owner has changed? Every other business in America has he right to grow, change, shrink. And every person in America has the right to leave a job and get a new one. This ordinance is really unfair to business. I wonder if it will actually stand up in court???
 
S

Sir_Nugget

good, whenenver a dispensary gets shut down i grin, none of them are model, they all suck huge ballz
 

bigbrokush

Active member
Well I have to say this, I believe that each and every dispensary is doing their best. But that rule about moving was put in by Don Duncan of ASA. No I don't think that it has legs to stand on in court.
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
good, whenenver a dispensary gets shut down i grin, none of them are model, they all suck huge ballz

So, how many of those have you been to?? If they all close, how will the Patients get their Meds?? Maybe just go down to the corner, and pick it up from whoever happens to be there??
Your sig says some pretty cool things...but then you "Pre-Judge" all D's...why?? From things you have heard second hand??
Look man, some D's are shitty....but even those have Patients who are helped by them-- I am not trying to start an argument with you, I am just asking for you to tell me where Patients will get their Meds, if they close all the D's?? They can't all grow...and if someone is willing to pay a price for Convenience, why can't they??
Maybe they can just all go get Marinol...and pay almost a thousand bucks for a 30 day supply...to find out it doesn't even help--
I am not happy with the way some D's are running...but every one that gets closed down, the Politicians point and say, "See!! They are all Criminal Enterprises!!"...giving even more Power to the Anti's to sway Public opinion against Cannabis Legalization--
This is not a personal attack on you man...I just strongly disagree with your stance on this--
Peace--:ying:
 

Preacher

Member
Is there any legal precedent at all that affirms that a set of restrictions on legal commerce so impossible to follow as to make it de facto illegal isn't allowed? US v. Leary is kinda on those lines but I don't see that as a good enough analogy since the 4th Amendment can't be invoked as well.
 

headstone

Member
I can't see how something like this would be passed in the USA. You guys are meant to be all about corporate freedom so reading a news story where restrictions and even forced closures of legally run businesses seems insane to me.

Maybe the lawyer should argue that its unfair to specifically go after dispensaries and the law should apply to all places of commerce? I wonder how many businesses would be forced to shut shop if that happened and what level of outrage it would cause in the community?
 
S

Sir_Nugget

So, how many of those have you been to?? If they all close, how will the Patients get their Meds?? Maybe just go down to the corner, and pick it up from whoever happens to be there??
Your sig says some pretty cool things...but then you "Pre-Judge" all D's...why?? From things you have heard second hand??
Look man, some D's are shitty....but even those have Patients who are helped by them-- I am not trying to start an argument with you, I am just asking for you to tell me where Patients will get their Meds, if they close all the D's?? They can't all grow...and if someone is willing to pay a price for Convenience, why can't they??
Maybe they can just all go get Marinol...and pay almost a thousand bucks for a 30 day supply...to find out it doesn't even help--
I am not happy with the way some D's are running...but every one that gets closed down, the Politicians point and say, "See!! They are all Criminal Enterprises!!"...giving even more Power to the Anti's to sway Public opinion against Cannabis Legalization--
This is not a personal attack on you man...I just strongly disagree with your stance on this--
Peace--

I understand what you are saying. You caught me red handed. Of all the dispensaries I ever been to though (which at one point was nearly every single one in Los Angeles County...) Only one had a transparent and customer friendly business model. I mean, it is not often that one can go into a dispensary and actually get useful information on the product they are receiving. Most clubs just have sacks and a white board with bud's categorized as either indica, sativa or hybrid. How many places have you been to that will guarantee you that they know 100% that the product was not nuked till the end with crap. Not too many. My experience with dispensary owners is that barely any of them are able to intrude passion into their non-profit. I have been disappointed by a lot of dispensaries, because they play on the customers lack of knowledge about cannabis , when what is at stake is customer safety. And without a passion for cannabis, they may not analyze their product, leading them to distribute harmful medicine. A dispensary owner should grow everything that he sells, so he won't pass on lies to his customers about the product, so he can monitor product quality, and so that he can guarantee the safety of his product without any doubt. Also, an owner who grows his own can base the donation (prices) on the cost of production, as opposed to the unethical alternative. Fair and ethical business practices these places generally lack.

Not all suck huge ballz, but many do. May the ones doing it right stay open and prosper.
 

BiG H3rB Tr3E

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c
Veteran
I understand what you are saying. You caught me red handed. Of all the dispensaries I ever been to though (which at one point was nearly every single one in Los Angeles County...) Only one had a transparent and customer friendly business model. I mean, it is not often that one can go into a dispensary and actually get useful information on the product they are receiving. Most clubs just have sacks and a white board with bud's categorized as either indica, sativa or hybrid. How many places have you been to that will guarantee you that they know 100% that the product was not nuked till the end with crap. Not too many. My experience with dispensary owners is that barely any of them are able to intrude passion into their non-profit. I have been disappointed by a lot of dispensaries, because they play on the customers lack of knowledge about cannabis , when what is at stake is customer safety. And without a passion for cannabis, they may not analyze their product, leading them to distribute harmful medicine. A dispensary owner should grow everything that he sells, so he won't pass on lies to his customers about the product, so he can monitor product quality, and so that he can guarantee the safety of his product without any doubt. Also, an owner who grows his own can base the donation (prices) on the cost of production, as opposed to the unethical alternative. Fair and ethical business practices these places generally lack.




Not very fair assessment. I have run owned and operated dispensaries that are from what you describe. I agree some shops are run this way, but like kmk said, if they did not serve a purpose and help people they'd be out of business. ID rather patients have a safe place to obtain their medicine than picking it up off some guy in a parking lot...
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
I understand what you are saying. You caught me red handed. Of all the dispensaries I ever been to though (which at one point was nearly every single one in Los Angeles County...) Only one had a transparent and customer friendly business model. I mean, it is not often that one can go into a dispensary and actually get useful information on the product they are receiving. Most clubs just have sacks and a white board with bud's categorized as either indica, sativa or hybrid. How many places have you been to that will guarantee you that they know 100% that the product was not nuked till the end with crap. Not too many. My experience with dispensary owners is that barely any of them are able to intrude passion into their non-profit. I have been disappointed by a lot of dispensaries, because they play on the customers lack of knowledge about cannabis , when what is at stake is customer safety. And without a passion for cannabis, they may not analyze their product, leading them to distribute harmful medicine. A dispensary owner should grow everything that he sells, so he won't pass on lies to his customers about the product, so he can monitor product quality, and so that he can guarantee the safety of his product without any doubt. Also, an owner who grows his own can base the donation (prices) on the cost of production, as opposed to the unethical alternative. Fair and ethical business practices these places generally lack.

Not all suck huge ballz, but many do. May the ones doing it right stay open and prosper.

Let me take this moment to apologize for my initial assumption...
I read your Location, and I assumed you have never been to a Dispensary-- My bad...sorry for that--
I do agree with you that the ppl working there, should either have a broad knowledge of the meds they provide, or at least have it set up to be able to look up info on each strain...the later is what I am seeing more and more--
I do not think that, at least for many of the larger clubs, that it is practical at this time for them to grow all their own meds-- Not only is it a Legal Nightmare right now, where each D is uncertain as to their future...but to add to that, the extreme cost of setting up a large grow, not knowing if it will be there long enough for even 1 harvest, well...that would take a GIANT leap of Faith in itself-- Not to mention, that as a Grower...I know first hand the incredible complications with growing a broad range of strains-- Some like it colder, some like it more/less humid, some are prone to this bug, some to that...same with molds...the list goes on--
I do think that they need to step it up a bit...especially, as you said, in the Testing part-- As of now, I don't believe there are enough Testing Facilities to be able to handle it if all the D's started sending a sample of everything they get-- Hopefully that will change in time...Prop 19 passing, IMHO would help that along, as right now, I think ppl are (rightfully) nervous about sinking a bunch of $$ into a Lab...only to be busted like the 1 up North (Sorry, I forgot the name of it)--
I am not proposing that we look at Dispensary Owners as "Saints", as we all know that most, if not all are in it for the $$, but "Helping people" and "Making Money" usually go hand in hand-- Just ask any Pharmacy, from Walgreens to the Mom & Pops, if they make $$, and if they help ppl...I believe they will say yes to both--
I believe that D Owners are made out to be the Bad Guys...mostly because of the Federal Schedule 1 that Cannabis is under-- Pharmacies could not stay in business if there was no Insurance Companies, and they had to absorb the cost of giving those without $$ their meds for free-- And until Cannabis is covered by Insurance (Change in Scheduling), then they simply can't do that for all that need it--
I could go on like this for hours...but don't worry, I won't!! lol
I just wanted to through around a couple of thoughts for anybody who thinks that Dispensaries are all Evil--
Vote Yes on 19, and though that alone won't solve all the problems...it will definitely soften the road!!
Peace--:tiphat:
 

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