Knock and Talk/What are my Rights

[MandingoSteele]

My grow is completely stealth, i have a false wall, there is no smell at all and the sound is completely unnoticeable. The only person who knows about my grow is my brother (he "growsits" for me when i am out of town, and also helped me build the room), we are very close and if he does roll on me I guess i deserve to go to jail lol, I mean he is my blood.

Only problem is i live in a town that is a basic police state, I swear to god my area must have the highest police to citizen ratio. In a 5 square mile area there are 3 different police stations each vying for state funding so they are very active when it comes to sniffing out any kind of criminal activity. I could sit at my bedroom window and see a cop car roll by my house every hour easily (and I live in a private development!!).

I dwell in a townhouse, and the only way i see a cop coming to do a knock and talk is

1. Neighbor might hear me tinkering around in my grow room.

2. Neighbor might call cops cause i am up late shredding on my guitar.

3. Sketchy electricty consumption??? I run 2 x 600 watters 3 small oscilating fans, one 6 inch inline fan, and one 20 inch box fan, and a 5200 btu ac unit.

I offset my usage, by not taking showers at home (gym membership is key), not doing my laundry at home, and rarely turning on any lights.. Yay for candles.

4. And I guess there is an off chance my neighbor could catch a whiff of my grow, but i believe this is unlikely.

so my questions are.

are numbers 3 and 4 enough to provide police with a search warrant, and if not, and they came for a knock and talk, what are my rights.

When i was yougner, me and a few buddies were renting a house. We had a party one night, and the cops came and knocked on the door. I opened the door and stepped outside, the cop said our neighbor called about the party and asked if he could come inside. I said no and he pushed me out of the way and he and his partner went in anyways....

They found a bowl in the house, no pot, but charged me and my roomates with paraphenalia, underage consumption and possesion of alchohol. We got a lawyer and worked out a deal with the prosecutor, plead guilty to the alchohol charges and they would dorp the paraphenalia charge. I talked ot my lawyer about what had happened that night and was like " the cop asked if he could come in and i said no, but h went in anyways isnt that illegal?"

he said "whether or not you allow the cop to come in they can always "say" they had probably cause"

So if the PoPo have suspicion that i am growing and come by to do a knock and talk for lack of a warrant, what is to stop them from tearing my house apart based on probable cause, i mean it is always gonna come down to my word against his in court right?? They can always say they smelled weed... even though there is no possible way you could smell my grow (or even my smoke) from my front door.

Im just trying to get my facts straight in case leo does come knocking one day, is it just best to let them look around and find a bowl and a dimebag ( and let them beleive this is the weed my neighbor may have smelled)?? or say no and have them tear my house apart becuase i got something to hide.

I just feel like whether i have the right to privacy and to say no to warrantless searches or not the cops are gonna come through my door regardless, because it has definitely happened to me once before.

 

[whodi]

Also, don't be walking around your house at odd hours of the night. People might notice you and call the cops saying "a strange man is wandering around this house"

 

[DiscoDuck]

First off, read up on specific laws/rights in your state. You shouldn't have to worry about power consumption, not showering or washing/drying clothes should more than offset your power usage. Make sure to pay the power bill on time and you're golden.

I'm not sure what's gonna happen when/if the smell becomes an issue. I doubt leo has a right to search unless they have reason to think smell is coming from a particular address. Keep that charcoal charged and you're good.

Your lawyer is right, leo can do anything they want. If they want to bust into your place and find your grow without a warrent, they can. The reason I'm not sayin they necessarily 'will' is because you have rights. Lots of busts have been thrown outta court cause leo didn't follow the rules. Leo knows this and doesn't want to go through all the trouble unless they think there's a good chance of conviction. This means they have to get a warrant or consent to enter from the occupant. It doesn't have to be you or somebody else living there. Anybody answering the door can consent to a search in your home!

If they get a warrant then you don't have a lot of choices in the matter. Your place will be destroyed whether they find your grow or not. They won't ask you for any cooperation whatsoever as they don't have to. You've already stated there's no evidence to implicate you as a grower. If things are really like you describe, I think you're one of the luckier growers. Just stay safe, make good decisions and you're probably gonna be just fine. You might wanna keep the guitar going on low blow, even before noise ordinances kick in. Leo can always drop by to say they got a noise complaint, any time of day. You have a right to make noise before the ordinance kicks in but why give them another reason to knock on your door? Blood family is probably the safest bet if somebody HAS to know. Just don't tell anyone else and swear your brother to secrecy. At least make sure he understands that the first three rules to growing are don't tell anybody, don't tell anybody and don't tell anybody. If you and you're brother should ever have a fallin out, stop growin.

You've already mentioned your grow is out of plain view and smell proof. The only way for leo to find it is if they're in the house. Here's where your part comes in:

Remember that a warrant search is not likely to request your cooperation as leo can do anything they want with warrant in hand. If you're asked to let them in to search, tell them only with a warrant. I won't suggest how polite or not you are to leo, that's up to you. Just remember you have rights and don't be their bitch. Don't let them scare you with the BOO game. Don't believe what they'll tell you, that things will be worse if you don't say yes to their demands. The reason they're asking for cooperation in the first place is because the rules force their hand. If they're asking, this means they don't yet have the right to do what they want. I wouldn't advise letting them in even for a sacrifice find, ie bong, roach, etc. Once in, they could comb the entire place. Even if they don't find your grow they will continue to intimidate you, trying to get further information/cooperation. You're in the disadvantage here. This is their day job and you're not experienced in the ways of their game. Keeping them outside is your best defense. I consider not letting leo inside without a warrant as rules # 3, 4 and 5.
Good luck with your grow. If you don't have a digi camera, this advise is free of charge. If you do have one, you are requested to post lots of pics to your grow, lol. Peace - Duck
No grower is completely safe from illegal search and seizure. If this happens, our only hope is with the system. If leo fucks up the bust, you may have the charges dismissed. If you cooperate and give them evidence, those chances of yours go out the window.

 

[DiscoDuck]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention your lawyer gave some bad advice. While leo can and sometimes does lie about consent, a good lawyer will conference with the DA and require the dispute to be on the court record. This is usually what instigates an appeal in the event you're convicted without consent or a warrant. In the event you really do live in a corrupt police environment, the lawyer might advise you he suspects the event I described. He may advise you to take your losses and take your medicine. A good lawyer will not put you through this. A good lawyer will stand up for you rights.

When you got busted for underage alcohol possession and consumption, your lawyer should have contested the entire episode. He should have reminded the DA to throw all charges out because of the illegal entry.

I'm not tryin to rehash water that's already under the bridge. My point is, leo can do anything they want if they're willing to be sloppy. You and a good lawyer can can go great lengths to make leo's job nearly impossible.

I don't think you have to worry about moving around in your house late at night. After all, we do live in America. If you're a partier and have lots of people in and out, you might attract the kind of attention you're otherwise wishing to avoid. If you blend in with the environment, I doubt you'll ever give them a reason to knock on your door in the first place.

 

[la resistance]

knock and talk... well, I'd let them knock all they want, but I'm not opening the door.

 

[Slipklot]

,

,

Don't answer door. They won't be knocking if they have a warrant. Also they are getting smarter they might send someone plain clothes acting like they are selling something and might ask for something which may lead to you saying come in so if you see a stranger knocking on door don't aswer period.

 

[British_Bulldog]

4. And I guess there is an off chance my neighbor could catch a whiff of my grow, but i believe this is unlikely

Well that sounds like an extremely BIG 'but' there MS. I would highly advise you to make sure that you are 100% smell proof at your location.

If there's any doubt, even 1% chance, stop growing immediately until you can guarantee 100%.

In your situation, this is the only realistic advice to give, as it sounds very harsh where you are, and your freedom is a valuable commodity.

Peace

 

[twojoints]

youre already doing the best thing you can. HIDING your grow. the popo will be inside your home to talk to you at some point, everyone gets their time. you just need to keep a casual search from turning anything up. sick as it is, its reality- our homes are little more then jailcells themselves...

 

[Ajunta Pall]

Since the pigs have your address, do you think that they watch your house to make sure that you are home before they do the knock and talk? If they get no answer but know that you are home will this make them more suspicious? I don't think that the dastardly pigs will just knock once and go away when they get no answer, especially if they know you're home. Just beware that the consequences for not answering the door could lead to more intense scrutiny.

Is there anyone out there that didn't answer and can tell us what happened afterward.

 

[kmk420kali]

Don't answer door. They won't be knocking if they have a warrant.

That is not always true-- On a Search Warrant there are various boxes for the Judge to check... One is for a Nighttime execution of the Warrant, another is for a "No-Knock" Warrant-- Nighttime warrants are always No-Knock, and are usually reserved for violent, or potentially violent instances-- Otherwise, they have to at least knock and identify themselves...and then breeching the door is up to their discretion--
That is why the DA didn't file on my friend..."Nighttime" was not checked, and they came at 2AM--

 

[z0ngsong]

4. Is more than enough reason for probable cause.... If they sniff around doors and find out where its coming from YOUR FUCKED. If you think odor isn't a big problem your very very misguided... that will get you locked up as quick as someone snitching on you

 

[snadge]

I am in a similar situation because I work away, a friend "room sits" for me when I'm away.

My room is also stealth no smell, at least that is what I thought, come back after a month and you can smell it, not overpowering at all but it's there and that is through a renewed carbon filter and that's enough to put you in a position.

I purchased a couple of plug in ozone generators that put out a safe level and use those in the sockets nearest my hidden grow, seems to have done the trick.

I'm a sour diesel fan and to tell the truth, it reeks.

better to cover all the bases eh!

 

[Raistlin Majere]

First off, read up on specific laws/rights in your state. You shouldn't have to worry about power consumption, not showering or washing/drying clothes should more than offset your power usage. Make sure to pay the power bill on time and you're golden.

I'm not sure what's gonna happen when/if the smell becomes an issue. I doubt leo has a right to search unless they have reason to think smell is coming from a particular address. Keep that charcoal charged and you're good.

Your lawyer is right, leo can do anything they want. If they want to bust into your place and find your grow without a warrent, they can. The reason I'm not sayin they necessarily 'will' is because you have rights. Lots of busts have been thrown outta court cause leo didn't follow the rules. Leo knows this and doesn't want to go through all the trouble unless they think there's a good chance of conviction. This means they have to get a warrant or consent to enter from the occupant. It doesn't have to be you or somebody else living there. Anybody answering the door can consent to a search in your home!

If they get a warrant then you don't have a lot of choices in the matter. Your place will be destroyed whether they find your grow or not. They won't ask you for any cooperation whatsoever as they don't have to. You've already stated there's no evidence to implicate you as a grower. If things are really like you describe, I think you're one of the luckier growers. Just stay safe, make good decisions and you're probably gonna be just fine. You might wanna keep the guitar going on low blow, even before noise ordinances kick in. Leo can always drop by to say they got a noise complaint, any time of day. You have a right to make noise before the ordinance kicks in but why give them another reason to knock on your door? Blood family is probably the safest bet if somebody HAS to know. Just don't tell anyone else and swear your brother to secrecy. At least make sure he understands that the first three rules to growing are don't tell anybody, don't tell anybody and don't tell anybody. If you and you're brother should ever have a fallin out, stop growin.

You've already mentioned your grow is out of plain view and smell proof. The only way for leo to find it is if they're in the house. Here's where your part comes in:

Remember that a warrant search is not likely to request your cooperation as leo can do anything they want with warrant in hand. If you're asked to let them in to search, tell them only with a warrant. I won't suggest how polite or not you are to leo, that's up to you. Just remember you have rights and don't be their bitch. Don't let them scare you with the BOO game. Don't believe what they'll tell you, that things will be worse if you don't say yes to their demands. The reason they're asking for cooperation in the first place is because the rules force their hand. If they're asking, this means they don't yet have the right to do what they want. I wouldn't advise letting them in even for a sacrifice find, ie bong, roach, etc. Once in, they could comb the entire place. Even if they don't find your grow they will continue to intimidate you, trying to get further information/cooperation. You're in the disadvantage here. This is their day job and you're not experienced in the ways of their game. Keeping them outside is your best defense. I consider not letting leo inside without a warrant as rules # 3, 4 and 5.
Good luck with your grow. If you don't have a digi camera, this advise is free of charge. If you do have one, you are requested to post lots of pics to your grow, lol. Peace - Duck
No grower is completely safe from illegal search and seizure. If this happens, our only hope is with the system. If leo fucks up the bust, you may have the charges dismissed. If you cooperate and give them evidence, those chances of yours go out the window.

the info i highlighted in red is incorrect
if the person is not on the morgage/lease they cannot consent to a search of the home
when it goes to court all charges will be dropped
well at least in my commonwealth state

good post though and great thread

 

[kmk420kali]

Do not open the door for any cop. Install an infrared camera at the door hooked to a monitor so you can see who is there before you open it. This is a really good idea and keep that carbon filter up to date!!!

Great advice!! When LEO is outside your door, a dozen deep...tell them that--

 

[green_tea]

who gives a shit if they see your home...

(sorry for the language, its beena rough 40+ hrs of being awake right now, and were on hr 41)

you could be sleeping, jerking off, in the shower...

hell the windows could have no blinds on them, and you could be watching tv, and if they knock, you could still not answer... what are they going to do, yell at you to answer the door? take of your shorts and shirt and get down to your briefs and start walking around!!!

no law that says you have to answer the door if someone is knocking...

 

[onelov]

if you do answer for what ever reason LOCK IT BEHIND YOU and step out...... worry about getting back in later after they are gone.....
yes they will come by trying to sell somthing and start asking bs ?'s in reg cloths

 

[twojoints]

the problem with "dont answer" is you could be doing anything when they come to your door. i couldve been mowing outside when they came for me, so how do i not answer?

really, the best thing to do is go outside and lock the door behind you. theyll get mad, theyll take you in for questioning, your house might be watched after that... but its really the best/only option we civilians have. if you lock the door then you will have evidence that they broke into your home. otherwise, however they want to write that police report is up to them.

 

[SomeGuy]

the problem with "dont answer" is you could be doing anything when they come to your door. i couldve been mowing outside when they came for me, so how do i not answer?

really, the best thing to do is go outside and lock the door behind you. theyll get mad, theyll take you in for questioning, your house might be watched after that... but its really the best/only option we civilians have. if you lock the door then you will have evidence that they broke into your home. otherwise, however they want to write that police report is up to them.

The problem with opening the door in the first place is you open yourself up to several "officer discretion" arguments for them to go inside. They can say they saw/smelled illegal activity or whatever and its your word against theirs.

In reality if they want in bad enough then NOTHING you have to say on the porch is going to stop them, but the less probable cause you give them to take to court and use against you, the better off you are in the long run.

The best advise a lawyer ever gave me is "You have a right to remain silent, USE IT!!!!"

 

[julsbagell]

One of our neighbors kids got in a fight with there brothers and sisters cops came and knocked on there door. lady answered and asked what they wanted.the cops said come outside and bring your id she said fuck you get off my property and slammed the door in there face they knocked one more time and left.If your not intimidated by them most cops are pusses.Cops are people that have been picked on all there life they work off of fear dont fear them youll take away there leverage.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

the problem with "dont answer" is you could be doing anything when they come to your door. i couldve been mowing outside when they came for me, so how do i not answer?

really, the best thing to do is go outside and lock the door behind you. theyll get mad, theyll take you in for questioning, your house might be watched after that... but its really the best/only option we civilians have. if you lock the door then you will have evidence that they broke into your home. otherwise, however they want to write that police report is up to them.

Keep mowing the grass!!!! You are under no obligation to talk to them!!! Ask them if you are being detained and are you free to go.

Great advice, open the door. Maybe when you tell everyone that, you should use the disclaimer that you did that and got busted.

I have refused to open the door and the cops left