Kholm micro seed run

[Serrated Margin]

Hi,
Hope this is the appropriate forum for this, I'll move this to the growing forum, if it is more appropriate there. It seems like this forum might be more focused on the particulars of this cultivar, especially with the lack of information on this particular cultivar, perhaps there is a stronger background in growing various landrace, or indigenous cultivars.

I'm planning to grow out 12 Kholm seeds as a seed run. This will be outdoors and I'm planning to keep the grow small, by starting late and using a small container size. I would like to keep this grow discrete, and prefer not to grow indoors. I'm in northern California rice country, the climate should be roughly similar to it's native climate. My goal is to grow outdoors similar to a indoor SOG, with single leader plants about 18" (.5M) to 24" (.7M) in height. I'll grow out all the seeds that will germinate.

I've never done this type of grow before, I'm looking for advice on a few particulars.

1. Timing: I'm thinking of starting the seeds around the beginning of July, this will probably give me 4 weeks of veg and 8-10 weeks of flowering. Is this timing too early or late?

2. Container size: I'm thinking about a volume of 3 liters (this is equivalent to the so called 1 gallon nursery container used here). Is this a good size, or perhaps larger or smaller.

3. Nutrients: Is the Kholm cultivar sensitive to nutrients in any particular way?

4. Pollinating strategy: I've never grown seeded marijuana, with such a small number, am I best off mazimizing genetic diversity and open pollinate, or should I try to select the best male(s) and try to selectively pollinate each female with the selected males?

5. Odor: During growing does this cultivar have a strong, odor noticeable more than a few meters away?

I'm excited to grow some seeded marijuana, I fondly remember the excellent seeded marijuana common when I was young.

Thanks for any advice

 

[SolarLogos]

Hi,
Hope this is the appropriate forum for this, I'll move this to the growing forum, if it is more appropriate there. It seems like this forum might be more focused on the particulars of this cultivar, especially with the lack of information on this particular cultivar, perhaps there is a stronger background in growing various landrace, or indigenous cultivars.

I'm planning to grow out 12 Kholm seeds as a seed run. This will be outdoors and I'm planning to keep the grow small, by starting late and using a small container size. I would like to keep this grow discrete, and prefer not to grow indoors. I'm in northern California rice country, the climate should be roughly similar to it's native climate. My goal is to grow outdoors similar to a indoor SOG, with single leader plants about 18" (.5M) to 24" (.7M) in height. I'll grow out all the seeds that will germinate.

I've never done this type of grow before, I'm looking for advice on a few particulars.

1. Timing: I'm thinking of starting the seeds around the beginning of July, this will probably give me 4 weeks of veg and 8-10 weeks of flowering. Is this timing too early or late?

2. Container size: I'm thinking about a volume of 3 liters (this is equivalent to the so called 1 gallon nursery container used here). Is this a good size, or perhaps larger or smaller.

3. Nutrients: Is the Kholm cultivar sensitive to nutrients in any particular way?

4. Pollinating strategy: I've never grown seeded marijuana, with such a small number, am I best off mazimizing genetic diversity and open pollinate, or should I try to select the best male(s) and try to selectively pollinate each female with the selected males?

5. Odor: During growing does this cultivar have a strong, odor noticeable more than a few meters away?

I'm excited to grow some seeded marijuana, I fondly remember the excellent seeded marijuana common when I was young.

Thanks for any advice

Greetings friend, nice 1st post. I'm in N. Cali near the capital. While I've not grown this particular strain, I've grown a lot of indica and sativa outdoors and grow 12 months/year.

Your growing an Indica/WLD which probably won't stretch nearly as much as a pure sativa, but Dubi will be the best to answer that. However, if it were me, I would put it out the middle of June. I usually put a few out the 2nd or 3rd week of June and will end up with plants about 24 inches, filled out. You will be pinching them back under a net? You shouldn't have to restrict their height using 1 gallon pots, I doubt they will stretch too much and again, control height with the net and topping before they go into flower. Keep tucking each lead under the net and more leads will come up. Just keep tucking them. I also use a net outdoors, works great.
The problem with small pots you will run into deficiencies and be watering too often, sometimes twice a day in our heat.
Go directly into the ground. You will save 10 inches or so in bucket height, so more stealthy and a LOT less hassle dealing with water and nutrients.
As far as nutrients, again Dubi knows these cultivars best, but like any plant, let it speak to you. For me, less is more and I can always top dress or feed liquid organic nutes if they need it.
If you want seed for the next run and plan to grow it again, I would do an open pollination (as long as you know for sure you don't have neighbors growing outdoors) or pollinate lower branches by hand. You can always freeze pollen from your favorite male and take cuttings of the girls to veg indoors, then select one to pollinate or re-veg your favorite female, it's really your choice. I do both if it's a line I'm preserving and trying to improve or out-cross.

Best of luck, looking forward to seeing pics once you get them in the ground.
Peace, God bless

 

[Serrated Margin]

Thanks for the response and kind words about my post. Hot the last few days isnt it? Based on the descriptions and photos from Ace's and Afghan selection's websites, this cultivar can grow big and lanky. Not a compact Afghan, growth habit leans more to NLD. I'm thinking our climate is pretty similar to NE Afghanistan, hot and dry, so it should be well adapted. There is a grow report on ICMAG forums from other locations including Pacifiic NW. Their photos show smaller compact plants. Will be interesting to see for myself.



I'm leaning strongly on keeping in containers so that I can easily manage the males. I guess I could plant in ground after sex becomes apparent. One approach would be to use larger containers and plant a bit later. I would rather err on getting smaller plants, but pruning is always an option. I don't really need any sort of large yield, just enough to judge the quality of the smoke and increase the seed. The advice of letting the plants speak to me is great, I can always plant in the ground if being rootbound becomes a problem. Next outdoor season, I will probably grow out a couple of the selectively pollinated seeds from the best females and get an idea of full size potential, if I like the smoke.



I had not thought of any of my neighbors doing outdoor grows, I guess it's good cannabis growing etiquette to make sure you are not causing problems for other cannabis growers.



I don't currently grow indoors, but that may be something I try in the future, it will greatly enhance my ability to grow cuttings and grow larger numbers in SOG grows.

 

[vcasqui]

Nice. I got a pack of these a couple months ago. Not to grow them this year (since I will be doing Malawi x PCK and Bangui Haze if God wants me to), but probably the next year in the outside; or even better, when I got my indoor ready.

I really want to see how this one turns out. I did buy them without having done any research, just based on the web's description. So i'm quite interested in this thread

Regarding your seek for advice, I can't really tell you much:

In my latitude the plants start to flower around mid August (the 20th more or less), so I have like 2 months of vegetative stage if I start them in June (Actually 3 of my MPCK showed their heads just today. They went to soil yesterday). My goal every year is also to keep them around 70cm tall, but I like to LST them to get as much ramification as posible (I start them in 1l pots, then 6l and finally 17l just before they start to preflower). If I only had 4 weeks to grow them, I think I would go with 6/7l pots; trying to bend them or wathever if I feel like they will grow more than I want them to.

Judging by the pictures of the website, they don't seem to have a very columnar structure, so probably 3l is a better bet if you are limited on horizontal as well as vertical space (I think this variety would do nice with LST/SCROG, that's one reason why I got them). I just hate to have the plants in very small containers tho, since I've always had problems keeping them healthy that way. But remember that I'm saying this based on 3 pics from the website, which are also directly on the ground (and I'm also not the best grower ever, which is another reason why I may have troubles in very samall pots).

I can't really say much about nutrients or odor, since I did not grow them. Also I don't know what kind of soil you will use. The only thing I can say is just the typical thing; start light and go from there.

And about the pollinating strategy, it very much depends on what your goals are. Last year I had 3 BH's, 2 female and 1 male; I let the male pollinate the females freely (it was my first time experimenting with male plants), and the only thing I can tell you is that they took more time to mature. The quality was still nice, but the buds were smaller than usual; so if you want to really have an idea of the potential of the plants I would go for a more controlled way. It's clearly more work, but that's what I'll do the next time I experiment with males again.

That's pretty much all I can say. Take care and Good luck mate

 

[Serrated Margin]

Vcasqui,
What is your latitude? Last year I grew LSD strain outdoors and it started flowering near the beginning of august. I'm around 39d N.

I use an inexpensive basic commercial potting soil. Last year I grew four plants in soil and two in containers (around 20 liters) The container plants slightly outperformed the soil. I am having the experience this year. I checked the roots in the containers arter harvest, they were not rootbound. My soil is excellent, a silty clay loam, perhaps cannabis prefers coarser texture soil, that' may explain why a potting soil that is a typical mix of fir bark, peat moss, sand and perlite seems to work so well.

I just found a thread on this strain on several people's grows of it., which is also sold by Real Seed Company under the name Tashkurgan. I will be seeking infromation there. Here is a link:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=367071




Cheers!

 

[dubi]

Welcome Serrated Margin,

Glad you managed to get some Kholm seeds from our website.
To be honest, i don't have first hand experience yet with Kholm or with the other Afghan Selection strains. It's been only a few months since we started to offer them and i'm too busy with our own breeding projects to grow strains from others, but i firmly believe there's huge potential in the pure Afghani strains offered by Afghan Selections and their pure Afghani strains are gems for landrace enthusiasts, lovers of hashplant cultivars and for breeders, otherwise i would not offer them through our website. Most probably we will re stock the previous and new Afghan Selections releases in June.

Some general tips regarding the cultivation of pure Afghanis.
It's better to germinate the indicas in April/May in latitudes between 30-40ºN so they can grow and reach sexual maturity with an increasing photoperiod. In that way they will have time to develop their natural structure and branching, and show their best potential later in flowering. I don't recommend to germinate indicas outdoors after summer solstice as they flower too young (immature) producing small, not so well developed plants. Although if you want to keep them small and with a single cola structure maybe is not a bad idea.

3 liter pots are ok for small indica clones, but from seed it's better to provide pots of at least 7 liters.

Pure Afghani strains can accept much better high levels of nutrients than for example tropical landrace sativas. Follow a similar feeding regime than with modern indoor Kush strains, just a little bit softer.

Regarding its preservation, if you are serious into breeding it's important to establish a mother room and keep clones in perpetual growth of all the different parent plants, do a few cycles with them to undertand the genetics and the qualities of each specific plant, when you have a better picture of their potential then plan accordingly the reproduction using the chosen best parent plants. If that's not the case and if you play with small populations then do an open pollination to preserve all the possible genetic diversity and to produce higher number of seeds to work with in the next generation.

Hope it helps and best wishes!

 

[vcasqui]

Vcasqui,
What is your latitude? Last year I grew LSD strain outdoors and it started flowering near the beginning of august. I'm around 39d N.

I use an inexpensive basic commercial potting soil. Last year I grew four plants in soil and two in containers (around 20 liters) The container plants slightly outperformed the soil. I am having the experience this year. I checked the roots in the containers arter harvest, they were not rootbound. My soil is excellent, a silty clay loam, perhaps cannabis prefers coarser texture soil, that' may explain why a potting soil that is a typical mix of fir bark, peat moss, sand and perlite seems to work so well.

I just found a thread on this strain on several people's grows of it., which is also sold by Real Seed Company under the name Tashkurgan. I will be seeking infromation there. Here is a link:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=367071

Cheers!

Oh, nice. Thanks for the link! I'll take a look at it.

My latitude is around 43N. I was a little bit surprised the first time I saw they started to flower so late, but it is what it is I guess.

I mentioned the soil mainly because of it's relation to the use of external nutes. I'm honestly a noob when it comes to it, because I always use "Composana Universal", a soil from "Compo" (a German brand that has always netted good results for me, at a good price), so I'm always in that comfort zone, which is kinda bad because I don't really learn too much about other compositions and such. The only thing I sometimes do (if I feel like it) is to add some coco to it in order to have better ¿"respiration"? (sry, I'm bad with english) in the roots.

But anyways, what I mean is that you will have to use more or less fertilizer depending on the soil and the size of the pot, and that's another reason I don't like small pots: In my case, when the roots of my plants are good enough and they start to run out of food, I just transplant to bigger pots. I've been using the same 1l bottle of grow fetilizer for 3 years. Granted, I sometimes run into deficiencies and I should be more aware of that; but they usually come in the last transplant, when they have been to much time in their 6l pots, or when can't give them bigger pots.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the smaller the pot, the more difficult it becomes to keep the plants healthy; not just because of the nutrient thing, but also because of the fact that they run out of water pretty quickly. I just have a hard time expressing my thoughts in english hehe, and hence all this rant.

The most important thing I've learned tho, is that cal/mag is important. At least where I live the tap wáter is extremely soft, it comes out at around 25ppm, so I have to add extra cal/mag throughout the entire season.

I'm gonna go ahead and read the link you gave. Thanks again

Some general tips regarding the cultivation of pure Afghanis.
It's better to germinate the indicas in April/May in latitudes between 30-40ºN so they can grow and reach sexual maturity with an increasing photoperiod. In that way they will have time to develop their natural structure and branching, and show their best potential later in flowering. I don't recommend to germinate indicas outdoors after summer solstice as they flower too young (immature) producing small, not so well developed plants. Although if you want to keep them small and with a single cola structure maybe is not a bad idea.

In case you read this dubi, I have a doubt:

Many ppl I know always tell me to start my plants earlier so I can harvest them earlier, which doesn't make much sense to me since they are photo dependant, and I'm already giving them around 70-80 days of veg (based on the premise that they start to flower around the 20th of Aug at my latitude, 43N), which should be enough to reach maturity I think. I've been doing this (germinating in the last week of May) for the past 4 years, have I been doing it wrong? Is 80 days enough to achieve fully mature plants? Will the plants start to flower earlier if I germinate them in early may instead of late may?

I don't know why I'm asking this at this point. I guess the fact that my friends keep telling me the "harvest earlier" thing has made it's toll on me. It's quite embarrassing to ask, but fuck it, why not? I might be wrong.

Have a Good day

 

[Serrated Margin]

Vcasqui,
My experience from working at nurseries for a couple of years is that potting soil mix makes a big difference. Very light mixes tend to foster fast growth and rapid root development but need more frequent water and fertilizing. Most of the constituents of potting soil mixes do not hold nutrients well, adding some real soil, or compost can help this, but risks bringing in pathogens and pests. It's a balance between water holding capacity and aeration.



In the western US, most commercial potting soil is comprised of a mix made mostly of fir bark, peat moss and sand. A few other items are commonly added, perlite, vermiculite, crushed pumice, and various composted items. Mixes with more peat moss holds water better, and peat moss hold nutrients better that ground fir bark. Finally, not all source of peat moss are equal, some source can have more salts in them, in the western US, Canadian sphagnum peat moss is excellent, there are other source that are not as good. Vermiculite also holds nutrients a bit better, but I do not like to work with vermiculite, it dust can be hazardous, it can be contaminated with asbestos.



I am not familiar with the potting mix you mentioned, I checked it on the web, but their website give no information on it's composition. Have you noticed better results when you add coco to your mix? Based on my limited experience so far I am thinking cannabis can be sensitive to soil aeration.

 

[Serrated Margin]

Dubi,
Thank you for your helpful advice, I think it would be a good idea to first increase the Kholm seed that I have, it may not be possible to get more, as the United States appears to be on the verge of removing it's troops from Afghanistan, it's future is sadly uncertain.



I am currently a casual grower of cannabis. Recently I am thinking about cannabis breeding more seriously, and it is becoming obvious to me that indoor growing compliments outdoor growing and is very helpful for breeding. Currently, I do not currently have an indoor setup.



I do not worry much about yields, though I do appreciate very much the beauty of a well grown cannabis plant that has had time to express it's natural structure fully. Unfortunately, despite improvements with cannabis legalization where I live, I have to be discrete with my outdoor growing.

 

[dubi]

Hi Serrated Margin,

You are right, germinating earlier don't make the plants to finish earlier with fully photoperiod strains, the exception would be semi autoflowering strains.
There's nothing wrong with germinating in late May/June if you want smaller plants.

Afghani and Afghani dominant strains usually start to flower in the second half of August at your latitude, 2 months of life from seed is more than enough for an Afghani to reach sexual maturity and to be able to flower without delay.

Hope it helps.

In case you read this dubi, I have a doubt:

Many ppl I know always tell me to start my plants earlier so I can harvest them earlier, which doesn't make much sense to me since they are photo dependant, and I'm already giving them around 70-80 days of veg (based on the premise that they start to flower around the 20th of Aug at my latitude, 43N), which should be enough to reach maturity I think. I've been doing this (germinating in the last week of May) for the past 4 years, have I been doing it wrong? Is 80 days enough to achieve fully mature plants? Will the plants start to flower earlier if I germinate them in early may instead of late may?

I don't know why I'm asking this at this point. I guess the fact that my friends keep telling me the "harvest earlier" thing has made it's toll on me. It's quite embarrassing to ask, but fuck it, why not? I might be wrong.

Have a Good day

 

[vcasqui]

Vcasqui,
My experience from working at nurseries for a couple of years is that potting soil mix makes a big difference. Very light mixes tend to foster fast growth and rapid root development but need more frequent water and fertilizing. Most of the constituents of potting soil mixes do not hold nutrients well, adding some real soil, or compost can help this, but risks bringing in pathogens and pests. It's a balance between water holding capacity and aeration.

In the western US, most commercial potting soil is comprised of a mix made mostly of fir bark, peat moss and sand. A few other items are commonly added, perlite, vermiculite, crushed pumice, and various composted items. Mixes with more peat moss holds water better, and peat moss hold nutrients better that ground fir bark. Finally, not all source of peat moss are equal, some source can have more salts in them, in the western US, Canadian sphagnum peat moss is excellent, there are other source that are not as good. Vermiculite also holds nutrients a bit better, but I do not like to work with vermiculite, it dust can be hazardous, it can be contaminated with asbestos.

I am not familiar with the potting mix you mentioned, I checked it on the web, but their website give no information on it's composition. Have you noticed better results when you add coco to your mix? Based on my limited experience so far I am thinking cannabis can be sensitive to soil aeration.

I see. I'll check later the composition of Composana's Soil and I'll let you know. It should be on the back of the bag If recall well.

I didn't really noticed too much of a change when I added coco to it, at least when it comes to the plants themselves. But I cannot tell for sure since there are so many other variables than can affect how the plants grow (myself being the biggest one ). The main difference is the weight of the pot, and that the medium doesn't get as "compressed" as with only soil (after some time of wet/dry cicles). Probably the retention of water and the ¿crust? that forms in the top layer of the soil are slightly different too.

Hi Serrated Margin,

You are right, germinating earlier don't make the plants to finish earlier with fully photoperiod strains, the exception would be semi autoflowering strains.
There's nothing wrong with germinating in late May/June if you want smaller plants.

Afghani and Afghani dominant strains usually start to flower in the second half of August at your latitude, 2 months of life from seed is more than enough for an Afghani to reach sexual maturity and to be able to flower without delay.

Hope it helps.

Ok dubi, thanks. It surely helped.

You specifically mentioned that 2 months is enough for Afghani strains to reach sexual maturity. I'm growing 5 Malawi x PCK and 1 Bangi Haze this year, would you say that 2 months are also enough for this kind of strains to mature properly too? For which kind of strain would 2 months not be enough? (I'm thinking some kind of extreme tropical sativa?)

Thanks again

 

[dubi]

Hi vcasqui,

Sorry, i didn't realize the question came from you Mondays!

Yes, both Malawi x PCK and Bangi Haze reach their sexual maturity after 2 months of life from seed (or lesser).
Only the very long flowering tropical sativas like pure Thais or pure Haze need more time (3-4 months of life) to reach their sexual maturity and to flower without delays or excessive stretching.

 

[vcasqui]

I am not familiar with the potting mix you mentioned, I checked it on the web, but their website give no information on it's composition. Have you noticed better results when you add coco to your mix? Based on my limited experience so far I am thinking cannabis can be sensitive to soil aeration.

I just checked the back label. It honestly doesn't say a lot about the composition. Pretty much just "High quality black peat, perlite and Agrosil" (a root fertilizer by them, I guess). It also mentions the contents of the nutrients in it, which range from 200 to 550 mg/l (NPK).

So I don't really know, but it works pretty Good. I think this year I will mix it with a lighter soil from a local gardening shop and see what happens.

Hi vcasqui,

Sorry, i didn't realize the question came from you Mondays!

Yes, both Malawi x PCK and Bangi Haze reach their sexual maturity after 2 months of life from seed (or lesser).
Only the very long flowering tropical sativas like pure Thais or pure Haze need more time (3-4 months of life) to reach their sexual maturity and to flower without delays or excessive stretching.

Haha no problem! Mondays indeed

Thanks for the answer tho. That was what I needed to know. Maybe in the future I'll make you a couple more questions related to this topic, but for now you cleared my doubts.

 

[Serrated Margin]

Pretty much just "High quality black peat, perlite and Agrosil" (a root fertilizer by them, I guess). It also mentions the contents of the nutrients in it, which range from 200 to 550 mg/l (NPK).

Sounds like a good potting mix, peat moss is often more expensive if I recall than ground forest products. That's why it is so prevalent in commercial mixes. If it is just peat moss and perlite, it will be very lite, if your plants are toppling in the wind, sand or crushed bricks, in limited quantity are good to add weight.