KC 36 x Blue Pyramid (Blueberry x Shishkaberry): Predictions?

[DuskrayTroubador]

Hey all,

I have a male KC 36 plant at one of my guerrilla gardens and I'm thinking of letting it pollinate two Blue Pyramid (Blueberry x Shishkaberry).

My thought is that I might just create a bigger and more vigorous Blueberry cross. Is there any way to predict if the outcome will be good or not?

 

[Creeperpark]

Well, you will get some plants that look like both parents. In other words, you will get some that are like the mother and some like the father. You probably won't get anything mixed in the first seed run, just copies of the parents. They can be a little weaker than true parents. You will get both kinds of weed.

 

[goingrey]

I have to disagree with @Creeperpark on this one.

The first (F1) generation of a cross is likely to be somewhere in between the two parents. And yes crossing to something not closely related should bring some hybrid vigor.

More likely to find those "copies" of the (grand-) parents in the F2 generation if you inbreed the F1 seed. But also everything in between.

This is in general, things like recessive and dominant alleles play an important part in how the children turn out.

What is the Difference Between F1 and F2 Generation - Pediaa.Com

The main difference between F1 and F2 generation is that F1 generation is the first filial generation of the offspring from the parents while F2 generation..

pediaa.com

Impossible to know for sure if the cross will turn out good but if both parents are good the chances are high.

 

[Grojak]

Punnet Square

Basic Principles of Genetics: Probability of Inheritance

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

I have to disagree with @Creeperpark on this one.

The first (F1) generation of a cross is likely to be somewhere in between the two parents. And yes crossing to something not closely related should bring some hybrid vigor.

More likely to find those "copies" of the (grand-) parents in the F2 generation if you inbreed the F1 seed. But also everything in between.

This is in general, things like recessive and dominant alleles play an important part in how the children turn out.

What is the Difference Between F1 and F2 Generation - Pediaa.Com

The main difference between F1 and F2 generation is that F1 generation is the first filial generation of the offspring from the parents while F2 generation..

pediaa.com

Impossible to know for sure if the cross will turn out good but if both parents are good the chances are high.

Cool!

Yeah, both parent strains are pretty good. KC 36 (its components are fairly secret, but it's a "secret project" KC 606 - likely some mix of Thai/Afghan/Brazil/Spanish landraces, as that is what KC generally works with - crossed with White Widow as the other parent) is a badass strain, and Blue Pyramid is pretty solid as well (the shishkaberry component is Blueberry x Afghan, so Blue pryamid is basically 75% Blueberry 25% Afghan).

I'd consider those to be not closely related, so I'm excited for the potential of some hybrid vigor!

All the plants in question are relatively small, 2 - 3 feet currently, but they were all planted fairly late and don't get all-day sunlight. All things considered, they've all grown at a pretty fast pace.

I figure they're unlikely to be huge yielders, so I may as well allow them to make babies and end up with several hundred seeds instead.

@Creeperpark Why do you think the first run is unlikely to produce hybrids/something more vigorous than the parents? I'm curious because it ain't too late to pull the male out yet lol.

 

[Creeperpark]

Because that has happened to me every time for the last 100 years. Now that's not to say the plants won't still be good. I have gotten some killer offspring that was as good as each of the parents. But the first pollination will between the two, will still give you a kick-ass plant that will favor one of the parents. The trick is to use two different strains of plants. If you want to make hybrids start with 100 plants and find the best one and cross it with the best one out of 100 other plants. Take those two best plants out of 200 and run them for hybrid vigor. It takes a lot of work making a good seed Friend.

 

[linde]

I have to disagree with @Creeperpark on this one.

The first (F1) generation of a cross is likely to be somewhere in between the two parents. And yes crossing to something not closely related should bring some hybrid vigor.

More likely to find those "copies" of the (grand-) parents in the F2 generation if you inbreed the F1 seed. But also everything in between.

This is in general, things like recessive and dominant alleles play an important part in how the children turn out.

What is the Difference Between F1 and F2 Generation - Pediaa.Com

The main difference between F1 and F2 generation is that F1 generation is the first filial generation of the offspring from the parents while F2 generation..

pediaa.com

Impossible to know for sure if the cross will turn out good but if both parents are good the chances are high.

Nothing is set in stone with cannabis breeding and genetics. ive had f1s look like one parent, the other parent or both parents and even neither parent. all depends on the actual parents in question and their lineage. but generally in my extensive growing and breeding experience ive found 90%+ of the time my crosses to be a step down from my expectations.

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

Nothing is set in stone with cannabis breeding and genetics. ive had f1s look like one parent, the other parent or both parents and even neither parent. all depends on the actual parents in question and their lineage. but generally in my extensive growing and breeding experience ive found 90%+ of the time my crosses to be a step down from my expectations.

Is that "step down from expectations" still good? I.e., If you hope/expect to create a more vigorous, earlier finishing Blueberry hybrid, do you end up with something that is generally on par with the parents (even if not really resembling either) or is it usually a step below both of the parents?

 

[goingrey]

Nothing is set in stone with cannabis breeding and genetics. ive had f1s look like one parent, the other parent or both parents and even neither parent. all depends on the actual parents in question and their lineage. but generally in my extensive growing and breeding experience ive found 90%+ of the time my crosses to be a step down from my expectations.

Maybe your expectations are too high?

I've had pretty good results making F1 crosses. I'd like to think it's because of some kind of sensible breeding choices. But probably just a bit of luck and realistic expectations. Every plant can't be "the one".

 

[goingrey]

Is that "step down from expectations" still good? I.e., If you hope/expect to create a more vigorous, earlier finishing Blueberry hybrid, do you end up with something that is generally on par with the parents (even if not really resembling either) or is it usually a step below both of the parents?

LOL just do it, don't let these naysayers talk you out of it. Probably you'll get vigorous/healthy plants that are somewhere between the parents. Better or worse, well that's a matter of opinion really. Unlikely to be much earlier finishing than the faster of the parents though, that's where I'd set your expectations back.

 

[linde]

I find the flavor is the first thing that suffers when cross breading. I cannot justify growing less tasty cannabis with each succession or run. therefore I pheno hunt for prime mothers and clone my plants. no guessing or wasted time/runs. each to their own...im simply stating my opinion. no right or wrong way. Cross them. give it a try. I'm simply saying don't get your hopes up...

 

[40degsouth]

Hey everyone, nice discussion
A true F1 can only be produced by two consistent ibl, accepted as an F6 or beyond and possibly bx’s as well. In my experience crossing an ibl (kc36) with the Blueberry x Shishkaberry, which lets say is a true F1 itself for arguments sake, still has so many genetic recombinations that my mind can’t comprehend.
Breeders spend years finding male and female, plants that throw desired and predictable traits into progeny which of course means consistency for customers growing out their gear after years of testing and R n D.
Does this mean you shouldn’t pollinate these plants.....hell noo....do it and grow them out, ruthlessly culling out the undesirable plants that don’t meet your expectations and standards. My advice is to make as many seeds as you can just in case you come across something special.
I’ve used a KC36 male myself into a DrGreenthumb Canada Kashmeri and the resulting seeds were the strongest pot l have ever smoked, a true one hit wonder. It was so strong that l in good consciousness had to stop growing it because it was just such a disorientating, debilitating and confusing high that would make you vomit if you had to much. People still talk about this stuff in hushed tones or rorcus laughter and even to this day l get asked for seeds or flower for those who knew where it came from. I called this stuff “Party Killer” because that’s exactly what it was. The buds were an electric blue colour, like a blue ring octopus. I must admit though, I got great satisfaction watching those joint hogs puff it down in the circle ......taught them a very good lesson.
Anyway l love KC Brains and he’s always been consistent in an inconsistent industry and he’s still doing his thing with the same plants that l was growing 20 years ago. There’s been a lot of talk about his 33 as a great breeding tool as well but the 36 worked a bit too well for me
Cheers,
40!