Kali China X Orient Express

[Terpene]

I haven't seen any threads on this cross from Ace, so I figured I would start one and toss some pics in of the 4 Kali China x Orient Express that I have in a 10 gallon pot about 2.5 weeks into flower.

Some serious variation in this cross. 2 of 4 plants are the yunnan pheno of OE that I've become familiar with - short, squat, dense little plants. They smell hashy and somewhat citric, orange/mango/lemony.

The KaliChina side are tall, leggy, and like to shoot vertical. They are LSTed out to the sides in the first photo. Unlike the short phenos, they had to be topped to maintain a more even canopy. The trichs on the taller ones have an interesting creamy, woody, spices and grilled / grilling meat? smell... Here's a closeup.

 

[2000pm]

Looking great Terpene, will be interesting to see how you do these. Mine came out like your description of the kalichina side in taste/smell. Really like this stuff!

 

[Undomesticated]

Wonderful garden, Terpene. I haven't yet had a chance to try the Kali China line or a Kali China cross.

If you don't mind sharing, what kinds of lighting are you using?

 

[Terpene]

Wonderful garden, Terpene. I haven't yet had a chance to try the Kali China line or a Kali China cross.

If you don't mind sharing, what kinds of lighting are you using?

Ive got a 240w (3w chipset) LED panel over the KCxOE and a 6 light 138w (23w each) CFL "spider" over the Nep Jam. I used to run more lights but I've found solid results with very little heat and electricity use from this combination, so I've stuck with it.

Detail shot on my "spider" lights. (I added 2 more to the open holes after this was taken)

You can mount the spiders into just about anything. Here's a friend's setup I built / painted which has (2) 3 light units in each keg:

(I know, his setup is WAY cooler looking than mine )

 

[porn]

HI, Terpene nice grow,a little question, with your light's setup (low hit and high color spectrum) , have you notice you get a more potent, smelling and good tasting buds?.

 

[Undomesticated]

Very nice. I love the half barrel light reflectors in your friend's setup. Way cooler!

Only 138w of CFL? Wow. That doesn't seem like much. I usually run about 3+ times that amount of CFL (to match 400w HPS numbers) over a roughly 3' by 3' area... Maybe I should experiment with a lower amount. I've always wanted to try LED, but it sounded expensive to me the last time I looked into it.

 

[Terpene]

HI, Terpene nice grow,a little question, with your light's setup (low hit and high color spectrum) , have you notice you get a more potent, smelling and good tasting buds?.

Im going to get myself in trouble with every HPS / MH lighting guy on here when I say this but in my mind, nothing compares to LED. But each style of light have their pros and cons.

HPS / MH
PROS: Incredible coverage and penetration. Buds are large, plentiful and you don't have to manage a canopy to produce them. Still the best choice for inexpensive production setups.
CONS: Heat, heat and more heat. Potential fire risks from the heat produced. Requires additional electricity to run air conditioning units. In HPS setups; color temperature tends to produce good sized buds at the expense of frost though modern grow bulbs have much less of a problem. In MH setups, frost is higher but weight is slightly down (blue-er light).

Flouro / CFL
PROS: Cheap. Easy. They don't burn things they touch (or you!). Buds are smaller, though can be about the same size as standard 600w production, though this requires extensive training and canopy management. SCROGs are mandatory. Frost / terpene production is better than HPS in my experience (probably a result of mixed color spectrum and lessened irradiance).
CONS: Canopy management, poor penetration. CFLs produce a "globe" of useable light the size of a basketball in flower and slightly larger than that in veg.

I tried mixed spectrum bulbs along with maxing out a 3x3 area with CFLs (575w panel ), buds were as big as anything I'd seen from under a 600w HPS setup, but the heat, continual canopy management and the effectiveness of LED panels caused me to scrap the idea after running it for 3 years.

LED
PROS: Modern units (3w chipsets and above) offer good penetration, decent coverage and minimal heat (maybe 1 degree over ambient). To give you an idea, my 240w unit covers a .75m x 1m area, but I can push it and go 1.25m x 1.5m if I don't mind a minor decrease in penetration and light intensity. Best terpene and frost production of anything I have used.
CONS: Pink/purple color spectrum can cause auto flowering in veg - especially when root bound. For veg, a blue LED panel won't have these potential problems. Cost is also a factor, usually $1-1.5 USD per watt. Flowering buds do not pick up as much size as CFL or HPS setups, though I have found with CFL supplementation (side lighting) the size comes back a bit.

This UMOL reading was taken under a 500w LED panel, I get the same reading outside in the middle of July. Anything over 1500 led to burned leaves and white buds. The ideal range is 1000-1400.

I haven't run the newer HID bulbs or anything cool because the cost is ridiculous, but they look to offer the best of both HPS and LED. I have seen some very impressive HID/LED combinations which had STELLAR looking buds growing under them.

Very nice. I love the half barrel light reflectors in your friend's setup. Way cooler!

Only 138w of CFL? Wow. That doesn't seem like much. I usually run about 3+ times that amount of CFL (to match 400w HPS numbers) over a roughly 3' by 3' area... Maybe I should experiment with a lower amount. I've always wanted to try LED, but it sounded expensive to me the last time I looked into it.

Thanks! Its just an old keg I had lying around the yard that we cut in half.

Generally speaking, I've found you need about 100w per .5m x .5m plant. To cover a 3x3, that works out to about 400w, similar to my overkill CFL panel.

The best bang for the buck I've found are Lighthouse Hydro units. I don't think I'm allowed to link to actual store fronts, but if you Google "Gotham Hydroponics" it'll save you some coin past what you see at Lighthouse.

 

[Undomesticated]

GREAT post, Terpene! Love the info, and thanks for the link. I definitely want to give LED a try when I can afford it. I would like to experiment with a combination CFL and LED setup to see how that goes. I'll just have to see what the future holds.

 

[porn]

Thanks Terpene, I really apreciate this info and your experience and light setup, again thanks and keep growing. Wish you get a super pheno in this run.

 

[Terpene]

Its been 2 weeks since the last pictures and it looks like theres some fun variation within the line. The development for 4.5 weeks is pretty impressive, I can already see that these plants will not take long to finish.

China Yunnan super short indica pheno.

The vigorous, stretchy Kali Mist looking pheno is covered in little buds like this:

This one is quickly becoming my favorite. Its got the large Kali Mist structure and Yunnan looking flowers.

 

[Terpene]

One of the four KCxOE (the stretchy Yunnan-ish pheno) developed a minor spider mite infestation around week 6 of flower. Rather than try and battle the little bastards so late in flower, I cut the plant down to protect the others.

I had a chance to try some of the early smoke last night. While still a bit fresh/green, the smoke had a wonderful taste and strong, pleasant high. Almost like smoking nelson or citra hops - very fruity, with Yunnans "orange" flavor but adding other citric notes and a sharp green note. Ill report more after its dried a bit better.

The other remaining 3 are just getting around to finishing in the next 10-14 days (total 8-9 weeks depending on pheno). The short Yunnan pheno has looked like its trying to finish since about week 3, so it will be the first to get the chop. The short and tall stretchy phenos which both have KaliMist's overall structure look like they will finish about a week later.

 

[dubi]

Your setup looks great Terpene

Thanks for starting the Kali China x Orient Express diary, flowers look very resinous after only 4-5 weeks of flowering, i'm glad you are also enjoying the terpenes of the hybrid.

Hopefully the spider mite infection doesn't spread much, so you can harvest untouched high quality organic flowers very soon.

I'm also curious to know your opinion about the 'pure' Kali China release, it's much more stable and predictable than the KC x OE cross, more incensey too.

 

[Terpene]

Your setup looks great Terpene

Thanks for starting the Kali China x Orient Express diary, flowers look very resinous after only 4-5 weeks of flowering, i'm glad you are also enjoying the terpenes of the hybrid.

Hopefully the spider mite infection doesn't spread much, so you can harvest untouched high quality organic flowers very soon.

I'm also curious to know your opinion about the 'pure' Kali China release, it's much more stable and predictable than the KC x OE cross, more incensey too.

Of course my setup looks great, its all Ace gear! (currently flowering: Panama / Nep Jam / KaliChina x Orient Express)

The spider mites are a non-issue. 3 drops of Avid per liter of water in a spray bottle eliminates them on any plant up until pistils showing in flower. After pistils are present, the best solution is to kill the plants as close to completion as possible.

The smoke from the stretchy Yunnan at 5.5-6 weeks is STRONG. Stronger than I anticipated to be perfectly frank. 3-4 hours of continuous dumb smiles with pleasant energy without anxiety.

Don't worry Dubi, I will be planting the KaliChinas (#6 / #21 / #22) next!

 

[Terpene]

The remaining two KaliChina x Orient Express have come down right about the 8.5 week mark. Great smells off these two, really hashy / incensey with tons of nugget sized buds right down to the dirt.

Stretchy KaliMist pheno:

Whole plant:

Tiny, indica-ish Kali Mist pheno:

As a side note, the high off the other two phenos has been continually impressive. Its fruity smelling / tasting but somehow also creamy and incensey. The effect is very chatty and happy, similar to Yunnan / Orient Express but with a bit more potency, a bit more punch. Its very feel-good smoke which leaves you with the confidence to set yourself to task. However, on the walk over to doing said task, you are going to forget why you're there in the first place.

Yesterday I caught myself staring into a refrigerator having an internal debate... "Ok, I'm here for a reason... it could be food... was it a drink.. might have needed more ice..."

 

[Terpene]

Writing this as I try out the first smoke of the stretchy Kali Mist leaning pheno.

The smell is creamy, lemon citric and sweet, hints of mango, juicy even... lemon cream with spices. Almost like light grilling spices thrown on top of a lemon meringue pie.

The smoke is strong, stronger than Orient Express was from my memory. You can taste the spiced citric cream on inhale and exhale. Its warmer, friendlier and more clear than the Orient Express was as well - and I was impressed at how well Orient Express ticked all those marks in the first place.

To me it seems like the KaliChina adds some punch to the cross but without making the high dense or dirty. It has a similar psychedelic effect to a Haze, but it flowers in 8 weeks. The yield comes down a little bit from the Orient Express, but the addition of the fruity / spicy flavor really pairs well with the wood-cream smell of Orient Express.

 

[dubi]

Sounds real nice Terpene

I'm glad to know you are starting to enjoy your first samples of the cross.
You are right, this concrete cross doesn't show the OE high yields, but is stronger than OE.

I consider this cross is a nice representation of the creamy sweet chinese yunnan pheno.

Kind regards!