Just can't win!!!

[DeVenT]

I've been messing around with this stuff for about 5 years now and I still can't seem to trouble shoot these things...
I'm growing in hydro, 1000w HPS, ebb and flow set up. Res temps are 68-72 degrees. Temps in the room are about 79-80 with lights on and about 70 while they are off. Humidity stays in the neighborhood of 45-50%. Been using Pure Blend Pro Grow 3-1.5-4 for veg, and Pure Blend Pro Soil formula 1.5-4-5 for flowering. Timer is set to run for 15 minutes flood every 2 hours. 15 minutes was the smallest incriment that I could find that was relativley cheap locally.
Before, I used to use Technaflora BC Nutes....Fox Farm Tiger Bloom....and now I'm back to the Pure blend Pro. But each time I always run into the same problems in flower. I always get these intense red leaf stems and the main stem of the plant. The older fan leaves that have the red stems develope small spots on them and eventually fall off.
I've tried each fert. at 1/2 strength to 100% full strength...nothin ever changes. I tried using some Liquid Karma, Cal-Mag Plus, Kool Bloom,....hummm, what else....let me think..anyways,...you get the point. I've kept my pH at 5.5-5.8-6.0-6.5 and it all doesn't seem to change a thing. I keep my TDS anywhere from 800-1200. I try to stay away from my well water cause it has a tds of about 220ppm but while it's cold out, the place stays really dry so I can't run the dehumidifier. I like to use the water from the dehumidifier because it only has a TDS of about 20ppm.
At my last res change I used 25 ml PBP Bloom Soil formula per gallon X's 10 plus 1/2 teaspoon of kool bloom cause I was thinking that I was lacking a little P and K. I dunno if it was enough or not but my TDS was close to 1200.
I've got about 5 different Indoor grow books from Frank Mel, Jorge Cervantes, Ed Rosenthol and others that I try to follow but they all contridict(sp?) themsleves. One says one thing then the other says another.
Anyways, I'll let the pic's do the talking, and see if someone can help me before I say the hell with this and just go back to buying what I need and give up on this project.









Anyone have any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?

 

[DeVenT]

C'mon now...someone help me save this lady before I wind up screwing it up worse than I already have.....

 

[acme420]

purple stems are thought to indicate magnesium defeciency. if you were in soil i would say water with epsom salt mixed in your water. i dont know what to tell you for hydro.

 

[TrichomusCaesar]

nooooo...magnesium defficiency is yellowing of older leaves in addition to brown spots on the effected leaves.

purpling stems can be gentic.....and considering overall looks I dont see much of a problem.

But you didn't even mention your pH so I'd assume that was the problem because it's quite vital to healthy nutrient uptake.

 

[DeVenT]

A healthy thanx's to you all that have replied. All input is mucho appreciated

I've kept my pH at 5.5-5.8-6.0-6.5 and it all doesn't seem to change a thing

Again, I have tried various pH levels with the same results. Every pH level that I have tried, and have listed, again, are all in the various books from all the well know authors(sp?) in this field. I swear they all contridict each other, thats why I kept trying different levels.

Jorge Cervantes-Indoor Marijuana Horticulture Indoor Bible says 5.5-6.5,with 5.8-6.0 being ideal.

Greg Green-The Cannabis Grow Bible says 5.2-6.3

Mel Frank-Marijuana Growers Insiders Guide says 6.2-6.8

and

Keith Roberto-How to Hydroponics says 6.0-7.0, with 6.0-6.5 being optimal for most plants. (this book is not about Cannabis,...just the basics of hydroponic principals,systems and set up. Excellent book for building all kinds of different systems step by step with all hardware needed described)

And as for genitic's, well....I've grown everything from Bog Lifesaver, NorthernLights Crossed with Shiva, Nirvinia's Bubblicious, White Rhino, White Widow, And a bunch of various commercial bag seed. All having the same exact outcome. They all get this crazy purpling or the fan leaf stem, then as it worsens, it progresses to the main stem....then the leaves start getting rust colored spots,...then wind up dyingand dropping off. And this continues until it winds up consuming the entire plant (by that time all that is left is bud), in the process killing it before it gets to mature. Just once I would LOVE to taste some of these killer stains at their full potential So to say its gentic's....well........thats just a wild guess...

My thought is hard water...Calcium(sp?) locking out something but I'm not sure. I've got a bad habit of reading too much into a problem and making things worse I guess all I can do is maybe try and pick up some GH thats made for hard water and see what happens....I just hate to keep spending money on more nutes...I'm gonna wind up with a better supply than the hydro shop in my area

BTW....what constitutes hard water? I picked up a water test kit from Home Depot and according to it my water is fine....BUT....according to my TDS meter, my water has a TDS of about 220-230...depending on the temp. One day I will break down and get a R.O. filter

EDIT: I never mentioned it but this girl is almost 5 feet tall. Roots are almost excellent! Not totally pure white but pretty darn close to it. Dunno if that'll help anyone who know's a little sumpin that can help out

 

[powdergreen]

over 200 is considered hard, depending on how much calcium and mag is in the water. I would also think it is a prob with calcium locking out mag or in combo K. Are you using phosphuric acid for Ph down, I know too much can cause prob when mixed with water with a high calcium level, also hard water usually makes you use allot of PH down and too much phoshurus can lock out some micros. Why are you using soil ferts for hydro?? I know how you feel i have similar problems, where ive tried every thing and im still getting some kind of ph/def prob. I even got RO filter ande i am having the same prob. Oh well maybe one day I will get it. Good luck

 

[ChaoticEntity]

well, process of elimination says it's PH or your water, 200 is definetly enough to cause lockout depending on the contents of the water, MJ tends to like the acidic side of things, I would say 5.3-4 is getting to the low side of things and 5.9-6 is getting to the high side, I would say 5.6-5.8 optimal but that's just my experience which is all of a half dozen strains.

Some plants are just finiky, I've got a mom that's just a bitch about nutes, a bit too little and it freaks, a bit too much and it stalls, unreal how much of a bitch this plant can be, BUT the smoke is insane and gives you a good buzz for the better part of 4-5hours! unreal quality... You may just have a plant that's a real bitch and pretty finiky and you just have to learn what makes her tick for her to put out(Now why does that sound like 3-4 of my ex's....)

good luck man, I'm sure you'll figure it out!

 

[Blackvelvet]

If your going to use pbp bloom for soil, try the following per gallon of water:
4 teaspoons pbp bloom soil
1.5 teaspoons cal mag plus
Add nothing else including more p or k

adjust ph 5.8 to 6 after mixing

avoid the well water or the calculations would be different

 

[DeVenT]

Hey guys, thanx's for the quick responses,.....and sorry for the late reply.

over 200 is considered hard, depending on how much calcium and mag is in the water. I would also think it is a prob with calcium locking out mag or in combo K.

I am looking into where I can have my water tested locally to see just what in fact is in it. I know that in my humidifer, the metal parts that is immersed in the water causing it to evaporate, are always totally encrusted in crud. This leads me to believe also that it is at least a Calcium overdose....which from what I read,....can lock out K which is what the plants are displaying to me. I won't bore ya with the run down of signs and symptoms again.

Are you using phosphuric acid for Ph down, I know too much can cause prob when mixed with water with a high calcium level, also hard water usually makes you use allot of PH down and too much phoshurus can lock out some micros.

I am using General Hydroponic's PH Down. Says it contains phosphoric acid, citric acid, and ammonium bisulfate. And yes, it does seem to take a substantial amount to make a difference in pH. So again, perhaps this is part of the problem??? If so, what should I be using instead of this G.H. pH down?

Why are you using soil ferts for hydro??

Because the PBP Bloom for soil has less N and more P. The 2.5-2-5 vs 1.5-4-5

ChaoticEntity, thanx's for the insight. Shows how tempermental they can be huh??

If your going to use pbp bloom for soil, try the following per gallon of water:
4 teaspoons pbp bloom soil
1.5 teaspoons cal mag plus
Add nothing else including more p or k

adjust ph 5.8 to 6 after mixing

avoid the well water or the calculations would be different

Thanx's also Blackvelvet for the mix. I shall try it just as soon as I can manage to scrounge up that much water. Hard to do without a filter of any sort. I can't see me going out and buying and lugging around 30gallons of water. But I'll do what I have to if it comes down to it....

 

[DeVenT]

purple stems are thought to indicate magnesium defeciency. if you were in soil i would say water with epsom salt mixed in your water. i dont know what to tell you for hydro.

I do have a few that are about 3 weeks into flower that are in soil. They are showing the exact same purpling as the ones in the hydro set-up. Not quite as bad yet but they are still small though. I don't, or haven't yet, adjusted the pH of the soil's water source. It is stays about 7.

 

[thc43]

when ive got what i thought to be either cal or mag def. lower leaves yellowed with spots in later days, new growth stems where purpleing if whole stems are purple problem has been around for the whole grow or its genetic but unlikley looking at the plants.. simular looking effect to what i get in the first cold days of the years after the plant was use to summer weather is a nute up take problem.


You have alot going on in that res half of the products ive never heard of. but a good nute should reverse the damage within a week. run at a mild ec 1.8 and use any additive that aids in nute uptake... leave the friendlies, silica and Pk out for this week (less additives= easier to work out whats going on) Get more air into the res and keep it clean and refilled..


what youve probally done is confused the plants by changes ec alot maby PH too, my last mag def was caused by running a different nute "a good one" for only one week when i ran out of canna... instant claw followed by the yellowing leaves. flush then a res of what i know canna range fixed it 100% in a week but i removed the yellow leaves because they looked diseased by the time id worked out what was up. the hygen nute is good but alot stronger than canna at same ec normally a mother plant food in my grow for all its additives all in one bottle.

 

[Guest]

hardwater maybe?

 

[weed_snob]

been a long time since i messed with hydro but i thought i remebered that the tds could ranged up too 2000 safely, maybe they just need more.

You said the problem only occours after bloom begins right? so its not a lockout otherwise you would see it in a 3 month old bloomer and the three month old veging girl next too her. (i am assuming not every plant you grow has had the same veg time)

For a time i had a similar problem that made manicurring a little too easy, so i just left them on the vegging fert for an extra couple of weeks. I still had leaf die off in that last two weeks though, but the production finally bacame respectable.

 

[Beetlepumpr]

Buy your water, reverse osmosis, only way for me to go.

 

[c2ccCaptChronic]

Simple solution..... ditch the dro, and start using soil. Its simple and works. Fox Farm ocean forest is one of my favs, mixed with perlite, or even OF mixed with promiix works good.

 

[DeVenT]

If your going to use pbp bloom for soil, try the following per gallon of water:
4 teaspoons pbp bloom soil
1.5 teaspoons cal mag plus
Add nothing else including more p or k

adjust ph 5.8 to 6 after mixing

avoid the well water or the calculations would be different

Hey, I mixed up what you recommended here and added it to dehumidifier water which has a starting TDS of 30 and pH of 7 and after adding it, it came out to a TDS of 1277 and a really low pH of 4.1 which I still need to adjust up. Does this sound right to you?