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Just can't seem to figure it out...

kagemusha

New member
Hi there. I used to post here under a different user name but got a little cautious when I moved overseas, so now I'm back with a fresh account. Anyway...

I consistently have the same problem with my young plants that just doesn't seem to quite match up with any of the problems I have read about in the various detailed guides that are floating around. Before I describe it, I should probably tell you that I am a soil grower (currently 50% soil, 30% perlite and 20% peat moss with dolomite to stabilise the pH, although I have tried a number of variations to try and get rid of the problem, with no success). I grow under compact fluoros, although in the summer I sometimes use the sun. For nutes I currently use Biobizz products, although in the past I also used an off the shelf general fertiliser with some success (but neither solving this problem).

So anyway, the problem is that after my seedlings sprout (no problem here, only had one seed fail out of ~20 over the last year), their initial growth seems very slow, at least when compared to the grow diaries I see here. After roughly a month, when the plants are still languishing around their third node or so and with relatively small leaves, brown stains begin to appear on the lower leaves, normally close to the leaf tip. These stains spread until they cover the whole tip, then work their way up the leaf until it is all brown. This progresses up the plant through the leaves. Sometimes the plant manages to break through some critical level where its growth suddenly accelerates and it matures into a perfect adult plant, but more times than not, the brown death gets up to the last set of leaves and the growth tip then shrivels away. Sometimes I try repotting to see if it makes a difference (doesn't seem to) and when I do it's clear that the root systems are extremely underdeveloped for their age. Roots also tend to be a little thin.

If you check my gallery you will see 2 shots of an afflicted plant. Poor camera skills mean that the focus isn't great, but it should give an idea of how the brown stains attack the lower leaves.



I've tried so many different things to solve this - use no nutes, use more nutes than prescribed, and everything in between; similarly I have experimented with various different soils and pHs but nothing seems to have an effect. I have also used two different breeds of seeds to see if the problem lies there, and experimented with clones as well to see if that made a difference.

When a plant does make it through then everything turns out perfectly. However, I would say that I am lucky to get 20% growing to maturity, and these things aren't cheap where I am at present...

I'm quite sure that what I am looking at isn't anything especially unique, just that I don't have the skills to figure out what is really going wrong. I can't put into words how grateful I'd be if somebody with the experience/skills could set me back onto the growing path!
 

VanGrow

Member
it would seem to me your medium .....soil....is for shit.....
but seriously .....those seedlings need some seed starter mix or something....id bet a dollar that mix is the cause....
Good luck
 
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kagemusha

New member
I should have mentioned it, but in the photo the top layer is just a few bits of gravelly stuff so that the top layer of the actual soil doesn't get dried out so easily (I water quite infrequently). The actual soil doesn't look like that. I have also tried using starter mix in the past, doesn't appear to make any difference really. Having said that, I'm quite open to suggestions as nothing I have thought of myself has been any good at all...
 
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Blackvelvet

Member
What's your ph? How much lime are you adding?

How to test soil ph: After watering and ferting well, wait 30 minutes. Then apply a small amount of distilled water to the pot surface. You only want 1 or 2 ounces of runoff out the bottom. Catch this. Test ph.
 

kagemusha

New member
Thanks for the responses. Using the method described, pH looks like about 6.3 for this particular plant, although in the past I have tried experimenting with pHs between 6 and 7.
 

Blackvelvet

Member
Looks like the seedling in the picture is starving. The cotyledons (first leaves that appear) are yellow. Burn could be potassium deficiency.

What are the npk numbers of the biobizz? Like 5-5-5 for example. How much do you use as a seedling and for larger plants? Do you fert with every watering? Are you adjusting the ph of the fert water after adding the salts? Does fert water pour out the bottom of the container when you apply it?
 
G

Guest

I think lightening up your mix some more should help. I'm not sure but I'm thinking that the roots are a bit starved for oxygen. Are you keeping the medium pretty wet? Let it dry out a bit before watering. Someone mention deficiencies but plants that small really shouldn't suffer from that. Have you been fertilizing them that small? It does have signs of nute burn. Don't even give your babies nutes until they need them which is usually a couple weeks and then only start them on a dilute nute regime.
 

kagemusha

New member
Hi there. Thanks again for the responses. The NPK for the Biogrow (which is the fert I would use at this stage) is 8-6-2. It came with a chart showing what concentration to use at each stage of the plant's life, which I follow, perhaps diluting slightly more than prescribed. I do use the fert in every watering (after the first 2-3 weeks, when I just use water), and I water maybe every 4-5 days. When I water the plant I keep going until the water just starts to come out the bottom of the pot. I don't adjust the pH of the fert water, but the runoff always seems to be within the normal acceptable range. By the way, the cotyledons are yellow, as you say, but they start off nice and green.

I can't help wonder if Rudedude might be onto something. I always though that I was pretty generous with the perlite or other aerating media, but when I think back there have been times when I've gone to repot and been a little surprised that there are still some (slightly) moist areas in the soil, despite not having watered for a few days. Maybe I really need to increase the amount of perlite/gravelly soil that I use in the mix?
 

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