Jack Herrer not feeling so good. (with images)

[ganjamann1]

hello i was trying to create a thread earlier but could not get the pictures to work properly, so here we go again.

these girls have been starting to get worse and worse, i dont know what i am doing wrong.
they misscolor, dont drink as much and is stalling in growth. they all come from the same mother.

they are in a soil mix of:

50L top soil
50L composted cow manure
2.8L blood meal
2.8L bone meal
15L perlite
0.4L lime.

the room temperature is around 20-25c always and i buffer the water to aroung 6.5-7 ph. no added fertilizers yet. they are under 600w hps atm and good ventilation with lots of fresh air.
i have had some issues with friut flies. but i dont think they do as much harm?

could it be cal/mag problem? this early ?
im thankful for all the help i can get.
best wishes and i hope you all have a great year

 

[ganjamann1]

what comfuses me is that some of the plants looks fine, this one for example. they are cuttings from the same mother and live in the exactly same soil and enviroment.

 

[NEED 4 SEED]

Could be anything. Overwatering, underwatering, overfertilizing, bad soil, used soil, soil with mold, soil which doesn't absorb water, soil which absorbs too much water.... When you say you had fruit flies, you could be wrong. They are most likely fungus gnats which damage the roots. They get treated with s-f-nematodes / steinernema feltiae, which are parasitic nematodes who eat the fungus gnats' larvae. Also check your roots, check if the soil is evenly wet inside the pot. Thes small one is probably too wet.

 

[NEED 4 SEED]

The last pic looks very nice. Would be curious how it flowers.

 

[maimunji]

This one in last pics looks really good. This can give you explain what happening. There is some kind of pets in your soil maybe from cow shit and your roots is good food for someone right now. Water few plants with strong poison and wait around a week then you will know.

 

[bsgospel]

My guess is a hot mix/hot spot (uneven distrib blood/bone meal.) What's your run-off?

 

[ganjamann1]

thanks for your replys guys. here are some more picture i took today.

 

[ganjamann1]

My guess is a hot mix/hot spot (uneven distrib blood/bone meal.) What's your run-off?

interesting, that would explain why only some of the plants are looking bad. i will bare that in mind, only way to cure hot-spot is flushing i guess?
i went out and bought a soil-ph-meter today. one you stick in wet soil and it gives you a reading on your soil ph.
once i stick the meter about 3cm (1inch) down in the soil it shows something around 6.5-7 in ph.
when i stick the meter further down, about 15cm (5inch) it shows a totally different reading. somewhere around 5ph or so. look at the pics.
can it be overwatering? the top soil dries out but the bottom soil is too wet and the ph drops?

i was gonna do a run-off test once the soil have dried off, can you give any advice on how to do the test? ive never done it before.

many thanks mate https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=75681&pictureid=1814376

 

[maimunji]

This meter is junk. If you want something to work you need to spend a lot more $$€€££. Ph soil reading need to be taken as close to main stem as possible.
Go buy cheap tds (ec) meter they are pretty acurate. Then make slurry test. If you have some mixing soil just like this shit in your pots take soil from few place. Mix with little ro water. Wait 30 minutes or 1-2 hours then test ph and ec.

 

[PoweredByLove]

Your mix is too hot. I would veg my small clones and seedlings more before sticking them in large containers of hot mix. Too much food for such small plants. The big ones will outgrow the problems, the smaller ones might be too little roots to take up all that food plus looks kinda dry. I would give the worst looking one a good soaking with plenty of runoff and just watch it as it gets dry. If it looks better after the pot starts drying out then repeat with affected plants. If not then the other plants will have started looking better. Do what you did with them instead.

 

[NEED 4 SEED]

I guess you may have forgot watering a few days ago and now keep them too wet out of fear.. Just a possibility but the brown dried leaves looked like it when i did so.

 

[ganjamann1]

This meter is junk. If you want something to work you need to spend a lot more $$€€££. Ph soil reading need to be taken as close to main stem as possible.
Go buy cheap tds (ec) meter they are pretty acurate. Then make slurry test. If you have some mixing soil just like this shit in your pots take soil from few place. Mix with little ro water. Wait 30 minutes or 1-2 hours then test ph and ec.

well i was testing the meter with some unmixed soil, that was suppose to be 6.5 ph according to the label. and sure enough the ph-meter showed around 6.5ph in the soil.
i know its not an precision instrument but it can give an indication.

i also have an digital ph-meter and a digital ec-meter. although never used the ec meter, what is a normal ec value for the run-off water?
should i mix like 50/50 water/soil and do the test straight down to the mix? or do i measure the run-off?

 

[ganjamann1]

Your mix is too hot. I would veg my small clones and seedlings more before sticking them in large containers of hot mix. Too much food for such small plants. The big ones will outgrow the problems, the smaller ones might be too little roots to take up all that food plus looks kinda dry. I would give the worst looking one a good soaking with plenty of runoff and just watch it as it gets dry. If it looks better after the pot starts drying out then repeat with affected plants. If not then the other plants will have started looking better. Do what you did with them instead.

great tip i will definitly try that.

 

[ganjamann1]

when im doing the slurry test. what ec-level is acceptable for small plants as in the pics?
is it best to meassure the run-off water or do a slurry?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

i went out and bought a soil-ph-meter today. one you stick in wet soil and it gives you a reading on your soil ph. once i stick the meter about 3cm (1inch) down in the soil it shows something around 6.5-7 in ph. when i stick the meter further down, about 15cm (5inch) it shows a totally different reading. somewhere around 5ph or so. look at the pics.

There you have it.

The pH in the mediums is completely unstable, because it hasn't composted long enough.

You should only start using soil mixes to plant in after they've been resting for at least a month, and the longer the better.

The plants look fried for that reason. However until the mix is stable, the pH will be unstable. Maybe a little compost tea will speed up the procedure.

Also, other than the manure I don't see a good K source, and I don't know how much Mg there is in the lime. Maybe some added woodash, or sulpomag - which also contains sulfur (for oil production).

 

[bsgospel]

*Puts on Carnac turban* My prediction is that your run-off will be about 1.9-2.2. High enough to damage but not enough to kill. That is, without any inoculation. I run 2.0 from veg but I add a bunch of Photosynthesis Plus from the get-go. A normal EC is relative to your strain, substrate, maturity of plant, lights used, inoculation/amendments etc.

I like all the other suggestions from this thread as well. Starting with a hot/unstable/low K mix and really small/under-vegged plants would explain your issue. A side-topic to research here would be osmosis and pressure gradients in roots or receptor sites in soil. Flushing by itself may not correct anything. In order for elements and moisture to be removed from an impacted root system, they need a canvas (lets say) to move to. But this will be difficult to control because your mix will continue to compost.

Suggestion, roll out some compost tea like Tanzanian said and hope you can get your roots strong enough, soon enough. Down the line, post some more pics and maybe we can recommend some actual nutrition to introduce based on how they're looking.

 

[slownickel]

Terrible calcium and phosphorus deficiency.

Add gypsum quick, water it in well and then make the plants beg for water.

You have been overwatering forever, it is a very typical error.

What you are seeing with the clones is that those that did not form a callus on the cut from over watering and lack of calcium, actually have a rot going all the way up from the bottom of the cut up into the plant.

Take your worst plant, wash off the roots carefully and then start slicing away at where the callus should be. Take pics.

Your mix is way too heavy, it is going to stay wet forever and your conductivity is problem up there.

 

[bsgospel]

I was thinking phosphorous, too. Lock-out from too much blood/bone meal? Or just unbalanced, perhaps?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

i went out and bought a soil-ph-meter today. one you stick in wet soil and it gives you a reading on your soil ph. once i stick the meter about 3cm (1inch) down in the soil it shows something around 6.5-7 in ph. when i stick the meter further down, about 15cm (5inch) it shows a totally different reading. somewhere around 5ph or so. look at the pics.

There you have it.

Forget all the other reactions, you've already established the cause.

You need to remix the soil and let it rest, maybe add some more lime. The soil pH meter is perfect for knowing when your soil is done - when it's about 7 pH throughout the soil.

I use my own soil mix too, following much of The Rev's method (using hemp bedding for mulch instead of wood chips, and putting extra nutrients on top of the soil as a paste under the mulch instead of using nutrient spikes). And the soil tester is the best way to know if your mix is done. You can also add alfalfa pellets, which have nitrogen and triacontanol, which is a plant growth hormone. Also, hemp bedding, worm castings and buckwheat hulls come with their own mycorrhizal fungi, I can testify from experience. You can add calories (fat, protein, carbohydrates) in the form of rice, corn, hempseeds, which will invigorate the mycorrhizal fungi. As long as all the macro, secondary and micro nutrients are present, you shouldn't have a problem during the grow.

 

[slownickel]

I was thinking phosphorous, too. Lock-out from too much blood/bone meal? Or just unbalanced, perhaps?

When there is a Ca deficiency, everything becomes problematic. You can't have too much phosphorus, sort of like having too much money.

Take a peek at the Slownickel Lounge here in the forum. Lots of tests, results, etc... You will get an idea real quick.