Issues in coco

[mountainfarmer1]

Background: On 10/14 and 10/15 I took cuts and started seeds. To start these seeds and clones I decided to use a coco product that was very light and airy because I thought with the extra aeration of medium would be a benefit. Product is called vermisterra. I feed GH flora series at recommended doses on their DTW chart.

seedlings: micro 2ml/gal, grow 1ml/gal and bloom 1ml/gal. also added are calimagic @ 3ml/gal and floralicious plus @ 1ml/gal. Feed is PH'ed to 5.8. Temps 75 RH 60. These sit in propagation trays on a heating mat set at 85 degrees. Lighting is 250w of T5

Rooted clones: micro 4ml/gal, grow 5ml/gal and bloom 1ml/gal. also added 3ml/gal calmag and 1ml of floralicious plus/gal.

Both the seedlings and clones have been moving very slow. This is typical for me with coco at early stages. The coco i'm using is called vermisterra and is supposedly a horticultural grade coco.It consists of coir and chips and like I eluded to earlier is has very high aeration and drains rapidly. I prepare this coco by hydrating with very hot water that was heated on stove top kill any pathogens, rinsed till ppm was under 100 and then soaked in two baths of 1/2 strenth nutes and 15ml/gal of calmag. As of late I have been applying foliar feeds of 1/2 strength nutes with a 1/4 tsp of epsom salt/liter.

Growth seems very slow and retarded when I compare to other growers on different forums when researching. For me it seems that until the roots fill the container which can take 4-5 weeks, growth is slowwww. What i'm looking for is some guidance from growers who have dealt with this before or just know how to avoid this. I have been growing in coco for a year and until now have been successful in flower. Veg is an entirely different beast. Also I think it's important to note that I do good in veg towards the later stages. Its the seedling stage and rooted clone stage that i am struggling with. The containers that you see in the photos are nursery bags, probably hold around 16oz of medium. See attached photos:

 

[mountainfarmer1]

These are newly rooted clones:

 

[TanzanianMagic]

1. What is the quality of light that they're getting?

The seedlings look a little lanky like they're reaching for more light.

2. Feed with a solution of 0.4 EC bloom food and 0.1 EC of epsom salt.

That should help with root growth and keep the leaves green and responsive so they'll grow faster.

Other than that, there are no major deficiencies. The clones look like they've started to root.

 

[bsgospel]

If you have the micro and bloom on hand, why not try an adjusted lucas solution? 6 micro, 9 bloom + 5-10 cal-mag?

What is it about the vermisterra that's providing aeration? To me it just looks like a lot of pith and scraps. Maybe get a splash of perlite in there?

 

[slownickel]

Background: On 10/14 and 10/15 I took cuts and started seeds. To start these seeds and clones I decided to use a coco product that was very light and airy because I thought with the extra aeration of medium would be a benefit. Product is called vermisterra. I feed GH flora series at recommended doses on their DTW chart.

seedlings: micro 2ml/gal, grow 1ml/gal and bloom 1ml/gal. also added are calimagic @ 3ml/gal and floralicious plus @ 1ml/gal. Feed is PH'ed to 5.8. Temps 75 RH 60. These sit in propagation trays on a heating mat set at 85 degrees. Lighting is 250w of T5

Rooted clones: micro 4ml/gal, grow 5ml/gal and bloom 1ml/gal. also added 3ml/gal calmag and 1ml of floralicious plus/gal.

Both the seedlings and clones have been moving very slow. This is typical for me with coco at early stages. The coco i'm using is called vermisterra and is supposedly a horticultural grade coco.It consists of coir and chips and like I eluded to earlier is has very high aeration and drains rapidly. I prepare this coco by hydrating with very hot water that was heated on stove top kill any pathogens, rinsed till ppm was under 100 and then soaked in two baths of 1/2 strenth nutes and 15ml/gal of calmag. As of late I have been applying foliar feeds of 1/2 strength nutes with a 1/4 tsp of epsom salt/liter.

Growth seems very slow and retarded when I compare to other growers on different forums when researching. For me it seems that until the roots fill the container which can take 4-5 weeks, growth is slowwww. What i'm looking for is some guidance from growers who have dealt with this before or just know how to avoid this. I have been growing in coco for a year and until now have been successful in flower. Veg is an entirely different beast. Also I think it's important to note that I do good in veg towards the later stages. Its the seedling stage and rooted clone stage that i am struggling with. The containers that you see in the photos are nursery bags, probably hold around 16oz of medium. See attached photos

View attachment 509719

Low Ca and low P. Throw a handful of Ace Hardware 0-10-0 bonemeal on there. Then start pushing with a low N and high K.

 

[mountainfarmer1]

1. What is the quality of light that they're getting?

The seedlings look a little lanky like they're reaching for more light.

2. Feed with a solution of 0.4 EC bloom food and 0.1 EC of epsom salt.

That should help with root growth and keep the leaves green and responsive so they'll grow faster.

Other than that, there are no major deficiencies. The clones look like they've started to root.

They are under 254 watts of T5 lighting, about 12-14" away. Do you think feeding with just bloom and ES will be sufficient feed? Thanks for your input.

 

[mountainfarmer1]

Low Ca and low P. Throw a handful of Ace Hardware 0-10-0 bonemeal on there. Then start pushing with a low N and high K.

Bonemeal? I have some bat guano laying around 0-5-0. Will that suffice?

 

[mountainfarmer1]

If you have the micro and bloom on hand, why not try an adjusted lucas solution? 6 micro, 9 bloom + 5-10 cal-mag?

What is it about the vermisterra that's providing aeration? To me it just looks like a lot of pith and scraps. Maybe get a splash of perlite in there?

I have the flora series base nutes with floralicious plus, kool bloom and some other additives. I'd like to keep it simple. The vermisterra is a brand of coco. I think its normally used as a coco additive to provide aeration. It consists mainly pith and croutons. Lastnight I added some coco coir on top and began to water it in. It should start watering in, so to speak.

I'm familiar with Lucas formula. What makes you think it will be any better than using GH DTW formula?

Thanks for your time.

 

[mountainfarmer1]

Another thing. I've noticed that I have pot worms in the containers. They got in their when I added some compost tea. They are in the earth worm castings that I have. I have had problems with them eating the embryo of seeds I have sowed. Have any of you heard of them eating roots?

 

[f-e]

They look cold and wet. They will tolerate it when they get bigger, but get the temperature up about 4c more, and they will probably start taking what they need.


Be very cautious about using soil amendments for your hydro. You can't take it back out. A handful in a 4" pot will mean having to tailor your feeding regime around what I see as a mistake. You can go down that road, but just warming the place up and sticking with available feeds seems a lot wiser. This isn't a field. If you want to add P and Ca instead of some heat, the bottled variety would be my choice. But then you're accepting your feed is no good to begin with. So why not switch to something that works for you. Just feed. No range of nonsense. One bottle of something is all you need. Ionic coco bloom works fine for me, even with RO water.

I used cogr which is similar, in that it's husky stuff you wet at home. I'm not sure it's suitable for cuttings. I only used it once, and my results, from memory, were inline with yours. There was a lot of variation between them, so I couldn't just dunk trays. Now I use a normal coco. So you may just want to knock it on the head as I did.

 

[slownickel]

Bonemeal? I have some bat guano laying around 0-5-0. Will that suffice?

Sure, that will work. Always try something on one plant only.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

They are under 254 watts of T5 lighting, about 12-14" away. Do you think feeding with just bloom and ES will be sufficient feed? Thanks for your input.

Absolutely, I've fed that to my plants many times.

What the P in the bloom food does, is stimulate root growth. It is the increased size of the rootmass that guarantees an uptake of more nutrients. The K stimulates stem growth, which allows the those extra nutrients from the roots to reach the leaves/flowers.

Most fertilizers have too much nitrogen, which stimulates growth. When the plants are small, they need to develop rather than grow fast. The root system grows more slowly than the leaves, especially in soil. Same with the stems.

A plant with a good root system and strong stems will also be more resilient to changes in the environment or insect attack.

And lastly the Mg in the epsom salt means the leaves are healthy and become phototropic, which is the ultimate sign of good health.

I don't know which bloom food you have access to, however any flowering phase fertilizers or late flowering fertilizer (high P/K) will do. I've used BioSevia Bloom, Plagron Green Sensation, Atami B'Cuzz.

If you stick to 0.4 EC for the bloom food, and 0.1 EC for the epsom salt, you can't go wrong or burn the roots.

 

[mountainfarmer1]

The room is a little cooler now that the weather is dropping. I have the plants sitting in trays on top of a heating mat set at 85 degrees. I have been soaking daily but will now start to let the roots search a bit. Yeah I think im gonna stick to my General Hydro products. I've up'ed the bloom, lowered the micro and dropped the grow. I did top dress with a 1/8 tsp of lime to try and get some more calcium in there as well. The clones are looking better but the seedling are still looking sorry. I'll up the temp some and see what happens. Thanks

 

[mountainfarmer1]

Absolutely, I've fed that to my plants many times.

What the P in the bloom food does, is stimulate root growth. It is the increased size of the rootmass that guarantees an uptake of more nutrients. The K stimulates stem growth, which allows the those extra nutrients from the roots to reach the leaves/flowers.

Most fertilizers have too much nitrogen, which stimulates growth. When the plants are small, they need to develop rather than grow fast. The root system grows more slowly than the leaves, especially in soil. Same with the stems.

A plant with a good root system and strong stems will also be more resilient to changes in the environment or insect attack.

And lastly the Mg in the epsom salt means the leaves are healthy and become phototropic, which is the ultimate sign of good health.

I don't know which bloom food you have access to, however any flowering phase fertilizers or late flowering fertilizer (high P/K) will do. I've used BioSevia Bloom, Plagron Green Sensation, Atami B'Cuzz.

If you stick to 0.4 EC for the bloom food, and 0.1 EC for the epsom salt, you can't go wrong or burn the roots.

Agreed and thanks. Ill update when things turn around.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

The room is a little cooler now that the weather is dropping. I have the plants sitting in trays on top of a heating mat set at 85 degrees. I have been soaking daily but will now start to let the roots search a bit. Yeah I think im gonna stick to my General Hydro products. I've up'ed the bloom, lowered the micro and dropped the grow. I did top dress with a 1/8 tsp of lime to try and get some more calcium in there as well. The clones are looking better but the seedling are still looking sorry. I'll up the temp some and see what happens. Thanks

I don't know what the room temperature is, however if it's - as long as it is about 20 degrees C and the plants aren't on the floor - you might not need a heating mat.

Also about clones, if you very carefully scrape and peal off the outside of the bark between the first and second node, before dipping them in a clone gel or powder, you increase the probability of them rooting enormously.

I'm looking forward to the update.

 

[RuStonedYet]

[QUOTE=mountainfarmer1