Is this a Phosphorus deficiency or something else???

[ZeusOGrefugee]

Hey guys...howz things in the Infirmary??? A little info to help u guys out before I ask my question, but let me start by sayin that I think I have a P deficiency in some of my plants and a N lockout in some others, but Im not sure. So...I am @ day 32 of 12/12 growing Blue Moon Rocks, NL, AK48 and Blue Mystic. Pro-mix soilless medium with no added amendments except dolomite lime. My nutrients are Earth Juice Grow, Bloom, Meta-K, Catalyst and Microblast. I am also supplementing with epsom salts and organic sugar for the last 3-4 weeks of 12/12. Let me just say I DO NOT HAVE A PH TESTER YET!!! I know, that is my first and last line of defense here, but I just havent gotten one yet. So thats about it... I think I have a P def and N lockout, but Ill let u guys tell me that. Oh yeah, Im under 400 watts of CFL's approx. give or take. Well, heres the pics...

P deficiency







??




N lockout






please let me know what u guys all think...


-Z

 

[Blackvelvet]

I am not sure of the deficiency. Maybe the tips and suggestions below can help you...

How much dolomite lime did you add to the promix which contained lime already? How long ago since you repotted?

Ph is very important. If you don't have a meter that can test liquids, get some ph test strips from the aquarium section of a pet store or a brew your own beer/wine store. Range 4-7 would be okay.

How to test soil ph: water/fert well, wait 30 minutes. Apply a small amount of distilled water to the pot till like 1 or 2 ounces of runoff occurs. Test this ph. If after watering and waited 30 minutes you can tilt the pot and get runoff, that can be used to test too. Good ph for soil is 6-6.5 and soilless 5.6-6.2 Around 6 is probably good for both soil and soilless. This is highly debatable at icmag so...

Adjusting your fert water ph after you mixed up everything prevents surprises. ph 5.8 to 6 is good for soilless like promix

How much of the ferts you mentioned are you feeding the plants?

I came up with the following to feed your plants (in parts per million = ppm):
n 106
p 58
k 132
ca 60
mg 30

This gives you 100 n to keep leaves from falling off but not excess growth. It also gives you extra p for flowering; i would not get higher p than this and 1/2 this rate still allows good flowering

To get the npk: 20ml earthjuice grow 2-1-1 + 10 ml earthjuice bloom 0-3-1 + 3ml meta k per gallon of water.

If your dolomite lime is running out from repeated waterings and you have not repotted in quite while or you need a cal mag boost like every third watering even with dolomite lime, use 1/4 teaspoon epsom salts and 1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum (calcium sulfate) per gallon of water. If you cant get gypsum, get calcium chloride. This might be sold under tomato blossom end rot stopper or something. I can't give you a rate for this till you get the net weight and % of calcium in it. Both of these calcium sources will not add nitrogen. Calcium nitrate at 1/4 teaspoon could also be used but will add nitrogen you don't desire in flower. Cal mag plus also would add n at 7ml per gallon. Better a little extra n than a calcium deficiency though.

If you want to boost micros at a low rate, 3/4 teaspoon earth juice microblast per gallon. This gives you
fe 1
mg 5
mn .5
zn .5
b .2
mo .005

You really want 2 ppm fe minimum but since that would make zinc 1 and possibly toxic, just aim for 1 fe above. I prefer a little more b like .3 When I was looking up the ingredients I could not find a source/mention of copper. Maybe you will get this from the guano or kelp in the other fert sources.

Light that joint!

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

WOW Black Velvet, what a fuckin response...Thanks so much, Im gonna have to check out those measurements and get a PH meter. Just curious, but how did u come up with those measurements? How the hell do u know exactly how much they need fo ea. element, etc..??? Please explain !!! Thanks again for the help!!!

-Z

 

[Blackvelvet]

Just curious, but how did u come up with those measurements? How the hell do u know exactly how much they need fo ea. element, etc..??? Please explain !!!

You can figure grams per ml of your liquid ferts by taking net weight in grams and dividing by total ml. This gives you grams per ml. Since I did not know the net weight, I used 1 ml = 1 gram. It will be a little off but close enough...you don't have to be perfect just close like a handgrenade. Example we want 105 n using 2-1-1 grow. 20 ml per gallon: 20 grams divided by 3.8 liters (1 gallon) = 5.26 grams per liter. 5.26 x .02 (theres 2% n in the grow) = .105 grams per liter of just nitrogen. .105g x 1000 to change to milligrams = 105 mg or 105 parts per million (ppm). The maker of metak says 1ml = 22ppm k so you can skip those calculations.

The recipe is like Johnsons nutrient solution from the Univ. of California. I doubled the p to be like jensens nute solution, added a touch more mag, and reduced calcium (We don't want our plants to become an eggshell now do we ? ) Johnsons nute solution is basically 1/2 strength Hoaglands but has the same p. You can see johnsons and jensens on page 11 formula 1 and 2...http://vric.ucdavis.edu/veginfo/topics/hydroponics/hydroponics.pdf

You can also compare your nute solution to the lucas formula. It tries to be 100-100-200-60 n p k mag. So I used the 100 n like it but it does not need so much p and k to be succesful. Too much p can cause problems like zinc deficiency especially. So with less k you need less mag. Everything is weaker. There is no lucas suggestion for calcium levels. I tried to aim for 4 parts potassium to 2 parts calcium to 1 part magnesium. A 4:2:1 ratio.

As far as micro rates, 2-12 fe is common. You can figure the math for microblast the same as the macronutrients we already did.

Here is a handy calculator at the bottom of the page that makes the math easy. http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm Enter nitrogen only once in either urea, ammonia or nitrate if you only have the total. The answer will be the same. Enter other % of the elements you know like p or k. Put ml per gallon your using (1 teaspoon = 5ml) Leave the default setting of 1 and 1 if you don't know net weight of the bottle and total ml of the bottle. Press calculate. This gives you ppms for each element. Repeat for all the different bottles you got and then get a calculator to find totals.

Good luck!

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

Wow dude, thats alot of math for my simple mind to process!!!LOL. OK, so can I use that formula for all plants??? How do I know how much more or less to add of each element?? Im sorry dude, but math is so far beyond me, it always was. Can u tell me how to convert these formulas to US measurements like oz., tsp., tbsp., etc...???I really appreciate the help, Ive always wanted/needed someone to really explain it to me, so props for that. I think Ill read a little more. What is this Lucas Formula?etc....??Thanks again for the help. If you keep the info comin, Ill be a good student..LOL Peace man.

- Z

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

wow, sorry dude, I just checked out the links u provided, Ill get back to you. Thanks.......

 

[Blackvelvet]

First thing you should do is get your ph under control. Then, You should get some books on ppms and hydro from the public library . Check out the references in the uc davis soilless culture link I gave. 3 authors I like are benton jones, edward muckle, and howard resh. Books on plant physiology and plant nutrition can be both fun and helpful.

 

[Verite]

Gawd what a load of crap.. about the only thing useful you told him was to get his ph under control and that will improve his situation 100%. Tossing out formulas with ppms, milliliter and gram measurements isnt going to get someone without a ph meter anywhere but confused.

And your 'universal ph of 6.0' info is more than a hoot. One of these days sproutco/blackvelvet will grow an actual pot plant and find out they dont really stick to a formula and 6.0 ph doesnt grow anything well in either soil or hydro.

 

[Brian1975]

I'm with you Verite. I sure as hell can't disprove any of that but holy shit!! I just was saying on another site, how so many wish to complicate growing to a point of needing a college degree. No PH tester=pissing in the wind. Without the PH being eliminated as the problem, it is anyones guess.

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

Thanks Verite and Brian. I didnt wanna say it, but I was just thinkin how this shouldnt be so complicated...Im goin to get some PH test equipment right now....

 

[Brian1975]

You're welcome. PH pens are the shit to have but if they aren't at your disposal, PH strips will work. Aren't as accurate but you will be able to determine whether your PH is in the "optimal" range (which IS often debated) for proper nutrient absorption. I like my run-off at 6.5 but again that is just me( and most other soil growers ).

 

[Blackvelvet]

Don't be closed minded. Open your mind and be receptive to things you might not understand at first.

Velvet

 

[Verite]

Don't be closed minded. Open your mind and be receptive to things you might not understand at first.

Velvet

What? like maybe we should think twice when you offer us kool-aid?

 

[Guest]

What? like maybe we should think twice when you offer us kool-aid?

Stop being a bad boy blackvelvet/sproutco. You dont need a college degree to grow plants! Are you drinking your own snake oil??

 

[Brian1975]

Damn, that's funny!! Thank you Mr. Jones, can I have some ice with my cyanide laden grape Kool-Aid? :friends:

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

Hey guys, lets stay on topic here...please!!!Is it possible the deficiency could be due to the plants bein rootbound???Maybe they cant get their nutes???I transplanted one of my girls into a bigger bag today, so we'll see if that makes a diff. Lets call it a controlled experiment...Later.

 

[Guest]

That could be very possible. Did the one you transplanted look rootbound?

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

it sure did, not horrible, but def alot of root action. Pretty matted around the bottom...

 

[Guest]

Then this may have been causing the problem. I would tell you to transplant the other. See this is why guys like blackvelvet suck moose cock. He is quick to call all kinds of micro def's and in the end a simple rootbound issue is more than likley causing this. Infact going over his post he would have killed your plants if you listened to him. When it comes to problems of this nature you must rule out simple things like ph, rootbound, root rot before blasting plants with the same kool-aid blackvelvet drinks.

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

Thanks HazeToker, Im gonna give the "test" subject a few days to a week to see if there is a positive change, but Ill prolly transplant all of them tomorrow or fri. anyhow..Thanks for not being so friggin "medical" about everything. Im not stupid by any means, but all that math mumbo-jumbo makes my fuckin head spin. This is a simple hobby, thats IT!!!!Peace man.

-Z