Is livestock-grade BSM molasses with prop OK

[lalstalls]

I can get livestock-grade molasses (by HerdLife) at my Agway. The product includes propionic acid, which the company describe as "a natural
preservative used to slow the growth of bacteria." This is about $.071 / oz.

I can alternatively get organic, no-preservatives Golden Barrel BSM for $.132 / oz.

If using HerdLife would kill the good bacteria in compost tea, for instance, I would not use it; but it would be nice if the acid were not an issue for us.

Does anyone know?

Thanks!

 

[StoneyShayne]

Considering propionic acid is an antibiotic, I wouldn't put it anywhere near a healthy living soil. That's just my 2 cents, but I sure know I don't want to slow the growth of any beneficial microbes in my soil and routinely giving them an antibiotic definitely will.

 

[lalstalls]

Thanks for the reply. As I said, I'm with you on the spirit of caution.

But I've read that propionic acid is an "alternative to" antibiotics, and - because I do not know enough biochemistry to infer a conclusion about its effects in waterings or teas - I wanted to see if others might. I read that this acid is weaker than mineral acids, and for all I know, simply heating to a certain temperature would break it down. Anyway, I'm frequently surprised by chemistry I learn on these boards: For instance, I had no idea that vitamin C could be used to de-chloraminate municipal water. But in their interaction, the chloramine is broken down.

If anyone has analogous news about this propionic acid in this context, do share!

Otherwise, I will be skipping the livestock-grade molasses, too.

 

[dank.frank]

Stockade Kandy Kid dry molasses. You can use it at about 1/2c per 1.5 cu ft of soil.



dank.Frank

 

[corky1968]

The bread bakery that I used to work before added calcium propionate
to the bread being baked where it acts as a mold controlling substance.
So there's good chance if you eat bought bread that you've been eating
all this time and your still alive.

If you read that link I provided also says that it can be used as a fungicide on fruit.

So I don't think it will affect your plants and it's probably in very little quantities as well.

 

[dank.frank]

It's not so much about affecting the plants, but if he is trying to grow in an organic soil, it will have a direct impact on the ability of the microorganisms in the soil to populate. That by default would have an impact on soil health, root health, and consequently, plant health...



dank.Frank

 

[corky1968]

I wonder if food grade molasses at the stores have it as well?

Gonna have to read the fine print from now on.

 

[lalstalls]

Thanks for these replies! Very helpful.

Stockade Kandy Kid dry molasses. You can use it at about 1/2c per 1.5 cu ft of soil.

dank.Frank

Wow. That is a cost-effective alternative!

• The dealer locator has me traveling to other states, and it looks like shipping will cost more than the product. (But it's still worth it if this is ROLS-friendly: $55 for 50 pounds of dried molasses - which I assume shelves longer?)
• How much would you add for, say, a 5-gallon batch of compost tea? Adapting MicrobMan's recipe, I add between 2/5 and 1/2 cup liquid. How much would that be dry?

The bread bakery that I used to work before added calcium propionate to the bread being baked where it acts as a mold controlling substance. So there's good chance if you eat bought bread that you've been eating all this time and your still alive.

If you read that link I provided also says that it can be used as a fungicide on fruit.

So I don't think it will affect your plants and it's probably in very little quantities as well.

I appreciate this info. Very interesting. As dank.Frank said, though, in my, context the beneficial fungal networks in my soil would suffer...

Thanks. Now I'm in the market for a good dried molasses.

 

[dank.frank]

If wanting to make a compost tea, stick with a liquid.

Only use the dry as a soil amendment.



dank.Frank

 

[lalstalls]

Thanks,
dank.
Frank!

 

[growingcrazy]

A word of caution, kid kandy that Frank mentions is not organic in anyway. It is a mix of molasses and soy, mostly soy. The soy is typical GMO grown roundup sprayed soy. I would avoid it.

You can order Organic BSM through Azurestandard for about $125 a 5 gallon shipped. If you don't need the organic get Golden barrel from webresteraunt for $25 plus shipping. You would be suprised how long a 5 gallon lasts even when using quite a bit...

 

[dank.frank]

The Kandy Kid is probably the BEST dried molasses product on the market.

Over 96% of soy grown worldwide is GMO and is produced using conventional agriculture with all the nastiness that comes with it.

The same is true of MANY beet production facilities, which is where MOST molasses comes from, beet sugar.

Molasses made from cane sugar is superior, and that is what kandy kid uses. Is it sprayed onto soybean hulls, yes it is...

I suppose the same group of people making these distinctions is the same group using rice hulls in place of perlite - and wouldn't you know where those rice hulls come from??? (yep, you guessed it)

Being realistic, if trying to save the world is a goal of how you make your soil, you're going about it the wrong way. What about all the plastic bags or bottles or packaging all the amendments come in that aren't even biodegradable...

But hey, look, this company spent an irrational amount of money for permission to use the OMRI symbol and they spent millions lobbying the government so their products could be considered NOP...

It's funny where sheep draw the line.

I'm here to help others grow great cannabis. I'll leave the grading scale and politics of who is more organic than the next guy to others.



dank.Frank

 

[lalstalls]

You can order Organic BSM through Azurestandard for about $125 a 5 gallon shipped. If you don't need the organic get Golden barrel from webresteraunt for $25 plus shipping. You would be suprised how long a 5 gallon lasts even when using quite a bit...

Thanks for these leads. I also appreciate coming up to speed on some differences among the sources of dried molasses. For now, I'm comfortable with the Kandy Kid compromise; but my eyes are open.

 

[dank.frank]

I'd agree that it is a compromise on some aspects...on others I have to wonder it if isn't just semantics.

I mean, I know the blood meal I use did NOT come from organically raised hogs and I know the feather meal didn't come from organically raised chickens...

BUT - those industries have spent millions getting their products licensed for usage in organic production, so therefore they are "organic".

I can think of a particular poultry based fertilizer (Harmony vs Symphony) that is made by the exact same company. BOTH are certified OMRI and NOP - Harmony comes from the standard chicken but Symphony comes from organically raised chickens. The cost difference is about $2 per 50#. So of course, I would buy Symphony - but that doesn't lead me to think that ALL products labeled or certified organic are raised as such.

Should they be. Yes. Are they in reality? NO.

I tend to think about the dry molasses in much the same light. It is NOT a certified OMRI or NOP listed product - I will agree with that aspect of things, but to say it's usage is some how no longer growing organically, I have to scratch my head and wonder if people are just drawing an imaginary line in the sand...

To each their own certainly and I'm really not attempting to justify where that line should exist - merely stating that to SOME degree, there is a monetary machine being greased by the licensing of "organic" materials for use in agriculture. With that being the case, like any other thing in life, I think it pays to utilize a bit of common sense and logical/rational deduction in order to come to terms with what you ultimately put in your soil.

Honestly, I've never found a certified organic dry molasses.



dank.Frank

 

[lalstalls]

I'd agree that it is a compromise on some aspects...on others I have to wonder it if isn't just semantics.... to say it's usage is some how no longer growing organically, I have to scratch my head and wonder if people are just drawing an imaginary line in the sand...

Nicely put.

In practical terms, certifications don't always point to the best choice - certainly not when it comes to farms where I am: local permaculture trumps the weaker "Certified Organic" on most occasions, all things considered.

 

[Microbeman]

Definitely cane molasses (BSM) is far superior to beet molasses. I've never used the dried variety because for my purposes, I don't want the matter it is sprayed on. There really is no big difference between organic BSM or non-organic, functionally. If some certifying agency is lording over you then sure, you've got to get organic. Otherwise I don't think there is much difference.

I suppose one could research how much pesticides etc. are used in cane farming or even how the farms are run for a specific sugar company. I have done so in the past when I was buying 100 gallons at a time.

One big thing I did discover is that for joe grower just buying from the livestock supply or the local grocery is the cost effective way to go.

I just make sure to confirm it is made from cane and has no added sulfur (all BSM has a little sulfur but sometimes it is added as a fungicide) or phosphoric acid. Usually you can order a 5 gallon bucket at the grocers or they carry 5 gallon stock at the livestock supply. I presently pay $16-$17 per pail at the feed store.

 

[Microbeman]

Nicely put.

In practical terms, certifications don't always point to the best choice - certainly not when it comes to farms where I am: local permaculture trumps the weaker "Certified Organic" on most occasions, all things considered.

For sure. When I was a farmer, I quit the goofy certified scene and went natural or uber organic. Some of their ideas and things they accept or deny are whack.

 

[MJPassion]

Definitely cane molasses (BSM) is far superior to beet molasses. I've never used the dried variety because for my purposes, I don't want the matter it is sprayed on. There really is no big difference between organic BSM or non-organic, functionally. If some certifying agency is lording over you then sure, you've got to get organic. Otherwise I don't think there is much difference.

I suppose one could research how much pesticides etc. are used in cane farming or even how the farms are run for a specific sugar company. I have done so in the past when I was buying 100 gallons at a time.

One big thing I did discover is that for joe grower just buying from the livestock supply or the local grocery is the cost effective way to go.

I just make sure to confirm it is made from cane and has no added sulfur (all BSM has a little sulfur but sometimes it is added as a fungicide) or phosphoric acid. Usually you can order a 5 gallon bucket at the grocers or they carry 5 gallon stock at the livestock supply. I presently pay $16-$17 per pail at the feed store.

I'm curious now,
My soil tests showed I was severally lacking in sulfur.
Lacking to the point I was recommended to add 20 lbs of elemental sulfur along with several micro sulfates.
Would using sulfured molasses hurt this type of soil?

 

[growingcrazy]

I'd agree that it is a compromise on some aspects...on others I have to wonder it if isn't just semantics.

I mean, I know the blood meal I use did NOT come from organically raised hogs and I know the feather meal didn't come from organically raised chickens...

BUT - those industries have spent millions getting their products licensed for usage in organic production, so therefore they are "organic".

I can think of a particular poultry based fertilizer (Harmony vs Symphony) that is made by the exact same company. BOTH are certified OMRI and NOP - Harmony comes from the standard chicken but Symphony comes from organically raised chickens. The cost difference is about $2 per 50#. So of course, I would buy Symphony - but that doesn't lead me to think that ALL products labeled or certified organic are raised as such.

Should they be. Yes. Are they in reality? NO.

I tend to think about the dry molasses in much the same light. It is NOT a certified OMRI or NOP listed product - I will agree with that aspect of things, but to say it's usage is some how no longer growing organically, I have to scratch my head and wonder if people are just drawing an imaginary line in the sand...

To each their own certainly and I'm really not attempting to justify where that line should exist - merely stating that to SOME degree, there is a monetary machine being greased by the licensing of "organic" materials for use in agriculture. With that being the case, like any other thing in life, I think it pays to utilize a bit of common sense and logical/rational deduction in order to come to terms with what you ultimately put in your soil.

Honestly, I've never found a certified organic dry molasses.



dank.Frank

I agree with what your saying.

My perspective is that I don't want to support a company that supports GMO soybeans.

Have a soil test for glyphosate done on two batches of soil, one with the dried molasses and one without.

I saw a bag of NS at a local store, maybe I will pick one up and send a sample out with my next one.

EDIT: I guess I should toss out that I am also under scrutiny of inspection agencies for organic production. As of yet I have not brought any animal products onto the property besides fish bone meal.

 

[Avenger]

Honestly, I've never found a certified organic dry molasses.



dank.Frank

Zone MS Crystals, Food grade(not just feed grade) Kosher,made from non-GMO sugar cane and OMRI approved.