is it really necessary to ground wires?

[Bedlam]

i followed quazi's guide:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99240&page=1&pp=15

and was not sure how to ground the green wires. i read up on why grounding is important, so i taped all the way around the electrical box so that no metal was showing. is this smart? will the electrical tape melt when the light starts running all day? is it bad to smother the ballast? and should i go back and do something with the ground wires?

 

[ourcee]

nah its not neccesary, its just gonna leave an open current that could quite easily kill you....


a ground just taps into the subpanel box usually for me.

if you wrapped your ballasts in electrical tape you are A) retarded and B) asking for problems... stop growing if you cant do it safely.


I'll repeat that again, if you arent sure if its safe... DONT DO IT.

gas and electricity can level your house or you.

what is it your trying to build/ground?

 

[Bedlam]

nah its not neccesary, its just gonna leave an open current that could quite easily kill you....


a ground just taps into the subpanel box usually for me.

if you wrapped your ballasts in electrical tape you are A) retarded and B) asking for problems... stop growing if you cant do it safely.


I'll repeat that again, if you arent sure if its safe... DONT DO IT.

gas and electricity can level your house or you.

what is it your trying to build/ground?

well if you clicked the link you'd see that i was modifying a vapor tight light to have a remote ballast. and i didn't simply wrap the ballast in electrical tape, i placed it in the electrical box and taped a few times around it to hold it in. and since theres no metal exposed that would be touched anyway, how would it even be possible for the current to run through me? obviously i'm trying to do it safely otherwise i wouldnt have made that post. there's no growing to stop; this is my first attempt and i'm bluntly asking for help so please tell me how thats retarded. i cut the extension cord into two pieces and wired the ballast and ignitor up in between them, which are both housed in said electrical box. the guide only told me how to connect two of the three wires in the extension cord, the remaining one being the green ground wire. so right now everything is wired up, except for the ground wire which is loose on either end of the ballast (bare wire not exposed), and loose again on the end connected to the light socket.

so thanks for half-assing your attempt to understand my question, but the help from someone using their whole ass would be a lot more beneficial.

 

[ourcee]

what I'm saying is that if you dont understand how electricity works. stop. you will hurt yourself.

you said you wrapped tape so no metal was showing, most ballast enclosures are metal so therefore it sounded like you were wrapping it up in tape and asking if it would melt off.

just simply wrapping something in electrical tape is NOT a solution to prevent you from getting shocked. wrapping a ballast enclosure in tape (granted I use much higher wattages and that equates to a higher ballast temp) just doesnt sound smart.

I'm not calling you retarded for asking for help, I am stating that doing work on something that can KILL YOU EASILY without FULL knowledge of what you are trying to accomplish is retarded.

I built a relay box that connected to 240v power and my grounds connected to a screw that I tapped into the 4 way gang box. theres just a bolt that connects to the enclosure itself and all of my grounds are connected to that, it completes the circuit so that when you grab those wires YOU dont complete it.

 

[Bedlam]

alright, well there's no possible way that it can "kill me easily" when its not plugged in so chill on the caps lock man. right now, i am acquiring "full knowledge", so i dont know why your implying i'm just jumping blindly straight into an untimely death.

either way, the circuit is already completed by the neutral wires. i dont know why youre acting like its an automatic electrocuting machine, even if i touched the box or the light right now while it was plugged in, i wouldnt be electrocuted. the only way for that to happen is if i touched both the hot wire and the neutral at the same time right? and right now absolutely none of either wire is exposed at all, so please point out a flaw in my logic or admit your own.

now, the questions i am trying to find out are *how do i connect the ground that isnt touching the gang box*? the one thats on the end of the wire connected to the light socket? and the other question i need to know is do i need to remove the electrical tape that is touching one side of the ballast, aka will this do damage or harm? and if i need to remove it, how should i secure the ballast in place?

 

[ourcee]

I'm merely emphasising the fact that electricity can kill you, yeah its not connected right now, but if you just had a ground dangling around, and it somehow touched a hot wire after you DID connect it, it COULD arc. Not something you wanna have happen.

maybe only the hot wire is touching the gang box... now when you touch that gang box and the negative wire. zap.

the ground on the socket can be attached to your hood/reflector/support for the socket. as far as the ballast ground goes, with a picture of what you've built it'd be easier to find a solution.


I'm not trying to sound like a bitch or anything I'm just saying that the potential risk for death is something that I'd like to avoid completely in my DIY projects.

 

[ourcee]

regarding the tape you said was on the ballast, is it on the actual wrapped wire magnetic ballast? if so then yes you'll definitely want to take it off as it would promptly melt when you turn it on.

 

[Danksta408]

Your grounding conductor (green or bare copper wire) is used to prevent a shock hazard in the event that the ungrounded (hot) conductor comes in contact with the case or frame of your equipment or appliance......The grounding conductor isn't considered a circuit conductor because current only will flow through it when a circuit fault develops......It provides a low resistance path to ground

 

[Bedlam]

how about using heat-resistant tape? or is tape just a bad idea? what should i use instead then?

also, there aren't any ground wires just dangling around, and theres no way it would touch a hot wire. not to mention i wasnt going to plug it in before consulting the forums, so youre just getting your panties in a bunch over a non-existent problem that i already foresaw and am taking care of with your help. but the negativity is not necessary, just straight facts please.

 

[ourcee]

how about using heat-resistant tape? or is tape just a bad idea? what should i use instead then?

also, there aren't any ground wires just dangling around, and theres no way it would touch a hot wire. not to mention i wasnt going to plug it in before consulting the forums, so youre just getting your panties in a bunch over a non-existent problem that i already foresaw and am taking care of with your help. but the negativity is not necessary, just straight facts please.

its not negativity, its the fact that if you saw half the shit some people pull in rigging their own setups, you would be amazed at how some people are still alive. how are we to know you havent been dropped on your head and are planning on leaving it taped up smothered and with ground wires ungrounded like your initial post would lead most to believe? you didnt mention anything, simply just asked if it was okay.

and that ground dangling and touching is a "for instance" and in this case theres many. dont think so narrow minded, maybe I'm trying to keep you alive. I'd hate to hear a story in the news about a diy rigged ballast starting a housefire.

 

[Bedlam]

Your grounding conductor (green or bare copper wire) is used to prevent a shock hazard in the event that the ungrounded (hot) conductor comes in contact with the case or frame of your equipment or appliance......The grounding conductor isn't considered a circuit conductor because current only will flow through it when a circuit fault develops......It provides a low resistance path to ground

thank you. so an acceptable solution would be to tie the grounds from the extension cord to the metal casing which houses my ballast, and again to something connected to the light socket itself?

if i take the tape off, i would imagine its even more unsafe to have wires just flopping around my utility room, or a ballast that could potentially fall out. i'm still confused on the tape question

 

[Bedlam]

its not negativity, its the fact that if you saw half the shit some people pull in rigging their own setups, you would be amazed at how some people are still alive. how are we to know you havent been dropped on your head and are planning on leaving it taped up smothered and with ground wires ungrounded like your initial post would lead most to believe? you didnt mention anything, simply just asked if it was okay.

and that ground dangling and touching is a "for instance" and in this case theres many. dont think so narrow minded, maybe I'm trying to keep you alive. I'd hate to hear a story in the news about a diy rigged ballast starting a housefire.

listen man stop flaming, i was not dropped on my head, i am not retarded, and i am not taking electricity lightly. i believe asking if my set up was ok is indeed 'mentioning something'. now what would have been retarded is if i had made a post asking if i could leave it taped up smothered and with ground wires ungrounded, and planned on paying no attention to whatever advice i got. but OBVIOUSLY, that is not the case. why the hell do you think i made this thread

 

[Danksta408]

Didn't your light fixture come with a grounding conductor attached to the hood or housing the light sits in??.........If so, you want to connect it properly to the grounding conductor of your extention cord........I trust that you are using a cord that has an equipment grounding conductor........The male part of the cord (part you plug into wall) should have 3 prongs........2 straight blades and 1 round probe.........If not, do not use that cord

 

[Bedlam]

this is a mod, there is no hood or housing for the light socket right now, i'm going to install it to a diy cool tube.

 

[HeadyPete]

You can get shocked from either the hot or the neutral. AC current flows both ways and your neutral is not on a breaker like your hot is. Either one grounds out through you and you get shocked. I just had a gas fireplace service apprentice learn that lesson changing the blower on my fireplace. The hot side is attached to the heat switch, which turns the fan on when the fireplace is hot enough, but he touched the other side (neutral) and found out that although the fan isn't running, there is still current there. It was kinda funny. Generally 110 v is not dangerous, just shocking.

Also, if there is an internal short in the transformer or ignitor and you touch the casing and you are grounded, you will get electrocuted. If the case was grounded then your breaker would trip from the short as soon as the power is applied. Without grounding, that short is waiting for you to come and touch it and complete the circuit. This are situations that you will not know about until it is too late. A shock through one arm down to the floor is one problem, but a shock between two hands that goes through your heart can stop it from beating and kill you quick.

No ground can also lead to fire, if the circuit doesn't trip fast enough in the case of a short.

Perhaps some of these peeps are over the top, but it is obvious you need a lot more knowledge and experience before you can say that you have a good, safe grasp of electricity.

Can you post a pick of your work so we can see better if you are doing it properly?

 

[Bedlam]

thanks pete. i will take pictures and post them as soon as i can find a camera

 

[cocktail frank]

ground everything properly.
or its your ass.

the cord feeding the remote ballast should have a green wire in it.
ground that to the metal box the ballast is it.
you should run a ground to the socket bracket also.
w/e metal bracket youll use to mount the socket to.
i would assume you wouldnt just let the socket rest on the glass of the cool tube.
i would pray you wouldnt.
also, the framework of the ballast is metal, you should have a way to mount that to your box, if not, there are holes in the frame of the ballast that you could put machine screws thru.
then drill holes in the enclosure box to match and nut and bolt it to the box.
this way the ballast is grounded via your grounded box.
then any metal on your socket, via the bracket, would be grounded thru the cord, to the enclosure, and thru the feed cord.
hope this helps.

oh and get the tape off the ballast, theyu get hot, real hot and the tape will only melt and stink.

 

[VenturaHwy]

Yes, ground (connect the green wire) to the metal parts which are parts in close proximity to your wiring. For extra safety you can plug into a ground fault receptacle . . .
And no you don't need to be touching both wires, hot and neutral to get a shock, just the hot wire to ground (you). The neutral can also shock you if it is open.

 

[NanoScroger]

michaels arts n crafts has the pefect piece of glass for 150w cool tube. its in teh hurricane glass aisle, and is a little candle fixture. its black iron, with a glass tube on it. 9 bucks.