Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol

[southflorida]

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Have been away for a while, contemplating the nature of reality,
and have become "aware" of a few things. This is for all the folks
that are on the path toward the "ultimate truth" and for the ones
that are considering taking this path at another moment in life.
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this is a quote from one of my posts which sums up the primary
topic that is being discussed in this thread:

Here is an easy way to look at what I'm trying to convey:

Imagine that there are two DISTINCT aspects of yourself. One is
what you are originally...or naturally. It is your "Being" in the human
being that you are, the part without pretense, cultural programming,
or any other supplementary process.

The other aspect of yourself is what you have come to know as "your-self,"
the "human part," the self-identity that is created and maintained through
all the beliefs, assumptions, and knowledge you acquired in life.

Since it's all you know (this second aspect) it's not easy to see that this
identification with "your-self" is strictly a SECONDARY process. Your self-identity
is "conceptual;" your Being exists "prior" to concept!

...the primary DISTINCTION between these two parts is that "Self-Knows," "Being-Is"

In this thread, I'm trying to discuss Being, and not the self-identity that
we have created through cultural/societal programming.

This is Consciousness/Being, and to experience this part of ourselves
DIRECTLY...we have to leave all of our programming, beliefs, and
assumptions at the door, and enter the domain that is the true
nature of who we are, always have been, and always will be!

...obviously, we have to pick this self-identity back up, when we
come back from the domain of Being/Consciousness, but can you
imagine the PERSPECTIVE that your "self" will have from then on,
and all the illusions that will simply fall away?

No matter how and when this occurs, it will feel as if an invisible mist
has parted to reveal a genuine glimpse of a simpler and more genuine
self, uncluttered with complications and affectations. This moment is
truly self-validating, since in that instant an undeniably real experience
of ourselves is awakened, and is remembered.

Whether this comes as an inkling or a full-blown awakening, the direction
is always the same, it is toward consciousness/being...what is REAL.

and another very important post about DISTINCTION as the function of Consciousness/Being
that creates EVERYTHING that we perceive as "reality."

Here is the primary thing for to grasp to understand the true nature of reality,
at least to understand it as much as it is possible, taking into account the
limited capabilities of our mind/intelligence: Your "experience" of "absolutely"
everything, and in "every way," is a matter of DISTINCTION

Stop making "distinctions" and you will experience "NOTHING/INFINITY" for yourself.

What we perceive and the "nature" of reality is "distinction"

...in other words...without DISTINCTION....there is...NOTHING/INFINITY...period!

...and there is no way that there can be SOMETHING...without distinction!

...DISTINCTION is NOT a concept...it is the "core-truth"...and you can experience it
for yourself...if it is something you truly want!

...this can be a "scary" realization, and it is not what the majority of people
have experienced as "enlightnment" or whatever they are calling it!

...the nature of everything is distinction...and "no-distinction" = "NOTHING/INFINITY"

...don't believe me? then notice that the only reason you are perceiving
SOMETHING/ANYTHING/EVERYTHING right now in this moment is that
you are making DISTINCTIONS between all the things you are perceiving.

...if you stop doing this...there will be...NOTHING/INFINITY...which is what BEING "IS"

...NOTHING/INFINITY are ABSOLUTES, and are absolutely the same, they have no
beginning and no end, and are not graspable by the mind/intellect. And nothing that
I'm refering to is not the nothing that we usually use in our everyday language.

...it is nothing/infinity/consciousness/being...the true nature of who and what we ARE.

...looking forward to hearing about your own PERSPECTIVE on this topic, take care SF

 

[draco]

sounds like plenty of nothing is more than enough

conditioning is a bitch; budda strived for the 'unconditioned state" which is impossible to explain by definition...

the mind is like the surface of troubled water - when the water is still it reflects the universe clearly. it is said that if you can stop the mind COMPLETELY for one second, you will have nirvana. everything else is illusion.
we decide what illusions to hold dear...

 

[southflorida]

sounds like plenty of nothing is more than enough

conditioning is a bitch; budda strived for the 'unconditioned state" which is impossible to explain by definition...

the mind is like the surface of troubled water - when the water is still it reflects the universe clearly. it is said that if you can stop the mind COMPLETELY for one second, you will have nirvana. everything else is illusion.
we decide what illusions to hold dear...

It is probably impossible to stop the mind, since it is a self-survival
mechanism! What is possible though...is to dis-identify from it, and
to see the true nature of what a self-mind really is.

To experience Consciousness/Being/Nothing is very realistic, but
obviously it can't be done using the intellect, because the mind
works through making concepts and perceives everything as it
relates to itself.

Obviously if one observes what he/she perceives, it will always be
objects/thought/emotions as they relate to the self. In other words
the self-conceptual-mind is always asking "what does this mean for me?"

...but, the primary focus of my first post, and this thread in general
is to point out that "distinctions" = "perceived reality."

...meaning that once there are "no-distinctions" there is "nothing"

...most people never realize that reality is distinction...period.

...they live their whole life making new distinctions, and never realize
the true nature of Consciousness/Being...which is nothing/infinity,
which are basically the same thing.

when there are no distinctions, there is no seperation, all is one,
and what you get is nothing/infinity

...this is impossible to grasp with the self-mind, but very possible
to personally experience, because we are all this nothing/infinity
right at this very moment, since this is our true nature!

...we just piled up a bunch of "distinctions" on top of this nothing/infinity
and are convinced that we "are" these distinctions, but obviously
they are "secondary" and come only after, or more correctly have
been added on top of nothing/infinity by our self-mind

...nothing/infinity/being/consciousness is primary, and this is our true nature!

 

[shawkmon]

smoke some dmt a half a dozen times or so and come back to the thread and reread it , um kay

 

[southflorida]

smoke some dmt a half a dozen times or so and come back to the thread and reread it , um kay

to have a direct experience with being/consciousness all I do is
stop making distinctions...why would I waste my health smoking dmt?

 

[MagdaAndBernie]

Option C: Bacon

That's real - real tasty

 

[bentom187]

and a scientific look for non beleivers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

 

[master shake]

I voted yes, but neither yes or no is correct. Everything is real in a basic sense of being able to cross reference, but I believe there is way more to it than our 3D bubble.

 

[southflorida]

I voted yes, but neither yes or no is correct. Everything is real in a basic sense of being able to cross reference, but I believe there is way more to it than our 3D bubble.

if something is 0.00000000001% false...then it is NOT true!

most people are aware how limited our sense are, and still they
believe everything they see, hear, feel, etc.

The primary point behind the message that I'm trying to deliver
is that DISTINCTIONS, or the differences between everything in
what we perceive is what creates reality.

This can be observed by anyone...it is simply what "is."

And, there are no exceptions...take away distinction/difference
and there will be NOTHING in your perception.

So the most important question is WHO is creating these distinctions
and differences that you are perceiving?

Obviously it is you! So this means that "you" are creating your
reality through making DISTINCTIONS!!!

Think about this...this is the nature of our reality, and it means if
you stop making these distinctions EVERYTHING, including you, who
is ALSO a distinction, by the way, would dissapear!!!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I had to say yes because as of yet there are elements of reality which we are unable to perceive completely or correctly or even at all.

 

[southflorida]

I had to say yes because as of yet there are elements of reality which we are unable to perceive completely or correctly or even at all.

By the way, have you also become aware at some time that
DISTINCTIONS/DIFFERENCES between a "thing" and everything else
in the world is what manifests that "thing" in our reality?

...and by "thing" I do mean everything, objects, thoughts, emotions,
in other words EVERYTHING that is included in our "perceptions."

...this basically means that if something is not distinct/different
from something else...it can't be perceived! Strange shit...huh?

 

[GMT]

You're confusing reality with illusion. Take away the illusion and all that ceases to exist is the illusion, not the reality behind the illusion.

 

[Fuzz420]

Still trying to pierce that veil i see. Its a toughie.

 

[draco]

the mind is just a tool of measure. always measuring shit...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Is the Universe a Giant Hologram?

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/10/holometer-universe-resolution/

Our existence could be coded in a finite bandwidth, like a live ultra-high-definition 3-D video. And the third dimension we know and love could be no more than a holographic projection of a 2-D surface.

A scientist’s experiment, now under construction in Illinois, will attempt to test these ideas by the end of next year using what will be two of the world’s most precise clocks.

Skeptics of a positive result abound, but their caution comes with good reason: The smallest pieces of space, time, mass and other properties of the universe, called Planck units, are so tiny that verifying them by experiment may be impossible. The Planck unit of length, for example, is 10 trillion trillion times smaller than the width of a proton.

Craig Hogan, a particle astrophysicist at Fermilab in Illinois, isn’t letting this seemingly insurmountable barrier stop him from trying.

Hogan is following through on a radical idea to confirm Planck units with two of the most precise clocks in the world. Deemed holometers, each L-shaped laser interferometer will have two perpendicular, 131-foot-long arms to scan for pixelation in the very fabric of space and time. If it’s there, two laser beams (split from a single source) that run through the arms won’t hit a detector at the same time.

“What we’re looking for is when the lasers lose step with each other. We’re trying to detect the smallest unit in the universe,” Hogan said. “This is really great fun, a sort of old-fashioned physics experiment where you don’t know what the result will be.”


The two holometers, now being built in an earth-covered tunnel on Fermilab’s prairie-covered campus, will initially be stacked almost on top of one another to listen for the same Planck-scale “noise.” Once the machine is calibrated and environmental interference is accounted for, Hogan says it should only take a matter of minutes to see if the devices simultaneously see it.

Should Hogan’s team detect something significant, they will then separate the machines and run the experiment all over again. If the noise they measure next isn’t correlated between the machines, it could be the calling card of a limit to space-time’s resolution.

Inspiration for the holometer came from such a noise picked up by an experiment called GEO600. Designed to detect gravity waves — ripples in space-time caused by things like colliding black holes — the machine is a laser interferometer like the holometer will be, yet has arms 15 times longer and a lower-frequency laser source (to be sensitive to gravity waves, if they exist).

Experimental physicist Hartmut Grote, of the Max Planck Institute in Germany, said he and his colleagues at GEO600 have been unable to pinpoint the source.

“In the past, [Hogan] became a little bit driven, even excited for some time, that this noise could be a result of the holographic principle,” Grote said.

The holographic principle, derived from weirdness theorized to occur at the boundaries of black holes, says reality could be a 3-D projection of a 2-D plane of information. It’s much the same way a hologram printed on a credit card creates the illusion of a 3-D object but, as Hogan explained, we can’t perceive the 2-D surface.

“We could be living inside that 3-D projection, with the truer vision of it as a 2-D sheet hidden by scale,” Hogan said.

Ultra-precise devices such as laser interferometers might be able to detect noisy fluctuations in the projection, which Grote says might “blow up” the pixelation to a larger, detectable size. Yet Grote suggests Hogan’s holometers, which are slated to be finished in a year, may be too late if progress with GEO600 continues on-schedule.

“We are not at the point where we can verify the noise we discovered is holographic, but we can falsify it as soon as our instrument is more sensitive than the limits of Hogan’s theory,” Grote said. “I’m confident we will reach that point over the next half of a year and find the source of the noise.”

Hogan maintains his cheeriness for the endeavor, even if much of the physics community remains skeptical. But Grote says Hogan has good reason to be upbeat.

“I think it’s a reasonable design to measure this effect, even though I think it’s unlikely he’s going to measure something,” Grote said. “If anything happens, he’ll put to rest another exotic theory about the universe.”

If he does find a limit to the universe’s resolution by exploiting the cosmos’ possible holographic underpinnings, however, Grote said it will make waves.

“It would be a very strong impact to one of the most open questions in fundamental physics,” he said. “It would be the first proof that space-time, the fabric of the universe, is quantized.”




Read More http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/10/holometer-universe-resolution/#ixzz13kVCwjLw

 

[GMT]

Hmm, intersting article head, as I read about how they were to test the theory I imediately thought of gravity waves, however I'm still not sure how they will differentiate between a possitive being the result of this hypothesis (which seems to rest upon the multiverse as a series of membranes theroy) and the gravitational wave theory. Yes they are using different wavelengths (and lengths) of laser, but still the 2 experiments essentially rest upon the same test. I'm not a fan of this idea, to me if the "3rd dimension" is an illusion, I see little reason for the other "2" to be real either.

 

[southflorida]

yes, as GMT, I found that article interesting, and it is nice to see
science moving in the direction of trying to prove the illusion that
we perceive as reality.

The thing is that in the end, no matter how far they go, they will
never be able to get to the very nature of reality itself, and this is
because this nature is no-distinction, while science is at its core
about making new distinctions.

I mean, to come straight out and say that the very nature of reality
is that Nothing/Infinity which is an Absolute is using Distinction to
create the reality we perceive, and that while we do perceive the
objects and they are really there...the very nature of these objects
is NOTHING...is not likely.

This is why the nature of reality is something we can actually
experience for ourselves...because we "are" this consciousness/being
right now, at this very moment, and we are manifesting everything
in the Universe as Distinctions.

But the foundation, the true nature of Everything is Nothing, and
it really can't be any other way. This is not something that can be
intellectually grasped, but I can give an example, just for fun.

...now imagine yourself 20 years ago, the stuff that you mostly
thought about back then, and what you perceived in those days.

...and now imagine that "someone" travelled back in time and told you
that there is this thing called INTERNET that you will be using to type
all kinds of information and will be able to share photos with other
people, and it will not matter where these people are on earth
as long as they have an INTERNET connection.

...now notice...what was there 20 years ago before this "someone"
helped you to make a DISTINCTION - INTERNET...did you notice?

...it was nothing! not some empty space where the distinction-internet
fitted in, or anything else...it was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...LOL

...this is how Consciousness/Being uses Distinctions to create
the reality we perceive, and absolutely everything we perceive
and can perceive is a DISTINCTION...without exception.

...but the part that is impossible to grasp with the mind, and because
of this it is UNBELIEVABLE is that the true nature of Being, Consciousness,
Distinction, the Present Moment (NOW), is nothing/infinity, meaning
they have no beginning and no end...they simply are...nothing.

...and this is how it is "right now" in this present moment, and how
it has always been, and how it always will be...and it is truly
mind-boggling and not in the domain of the self-mind or intellect

...it is what was before everything, is now, and will be after everything
is gone, and in the end it means that this Nothing (being, consciousness)
is using Distinctions (a function of this nothing/being/consciousness)
to create Something (which is still in its true nature...NOTHING) and
we as human beings perceive it.

...and what's even more strange is that even though everything is
distinct...it is not separate, it is only different from each other,
because "separation" itself is a distinction, and because of this, it is
not separate from everything else...lol

...this is very hard to describe using words in the domain of the
self-mind because everything in this domain is "relative" and not
absolute.

...but in the end, while we know what something "is" in relation
to something else...we don't actually know the true nature of
anything as it-self and for-itself, and this is because its true
nature is nothing/infinity

 

[med_breeder]

It would be so cool if it was really 2117. We all are just brains in a vat. What if bodies are just a liability? So now people are just brains in a nutrient rich liquid with a brain computer interface.

 

[statusquo]

I'm a fan of biocentrism in regards to a metaphysical theory of reality. Robert Lanza wrote a small paper and should be easily searchable on google. "A New Theory of the Universe". It is the idea that reality is inherently dependent upon an observer, i.e. biology is necessary for any kind of objective reality to exist. This does not mean that there isn't an "objective" or background reality, however. It does a nice job of incorporating quantum mechanics into the picture (double-slit experiment and wheeler's delayed choice exp.)

Edit: not OP's fault but multiple choice just tends to limit things haha. I think reality is illusory in that we all experience our own subjective realities generated by our brains from the objective sensory data (that get's filtered/manipulated by the senses and brain) that we are capable of receiving and processing. Think about thought without vision in the optic spectrum, say no vision at all. Perhaps no hearing to predate the development of verbal language - language being the unique human property that gave us our unique form of consciousness and fundamentally affects how we think. Imagine thinking without language...Even if you don't consciously think about it, when you are seeing, your brain is distinguishing and separating all that information into distinct objects. We have the ability to form concepts to refer to abstract information that doesn't relate to something immediately detectable by some sense. When I stare at my computer my brain knows all the objects in the visual data even if "we" (egos; the part(s) of the brain responsible for creating the ego and the things it entails) can only consciously recognize a handful. How does a bat's experience of space-time manifest itself? As humans, we are also living a our own "fake" realities given our illusion of free will. Anyway I should stop rambling, I'm sure I have already managed to offend a handful of people lol....

 

[southflorida]

I'm a fan of biocentrism in regards to a metaphysical theory of reality. Robert Lanza wrote a small paper and should be easily searchable on google. "A New Theory of the Universe". It is the idea that reality is inherently dependent upon an observer, i.e. biology is necessary for any kind of objective reality to exist. This does not mean that there isn't an "objective" or background reality, however. It does a nice job of incorporating quantum mechanics into the picture (double-slit experiment and wheeler's delayed choice exp.)

Edit: not OP's fault but multiple choice just tends to limit things haha. I think reality is illusory in that we all experience our own subjective realities generated by our brains from the objective sensory data (that get's filtered/manipulated by the senses and brain) that we are capable of receiving and processing. Think about thought without vision in the optic spectrum, say no vision at all. Perhaps no hearing to predate the development of verbal language - language being the unique human property that gave us our unique form of consciousness and fundamentally affects how we think. Imagine thinking without language...Even if you don't consciously think about it, when you are seeing, your brain is distinguishing and separating all that information into distinct objects. We have the ability to form concepts to refer to abstract information that doesn't relate to something immediately detectable by some sense. When I stare at my computer my brain knows all the objects in the visual data even if "we" (egos; the part(s) of the brain responsible for creating the ego and the things it entails) can only consciously recognize a handful. How does a bat's experience of space-time manifest itself? As humans, we are also living a our own "fake" realities given our illusion of free will. Anyway I should stop rambling, I'm sure I have already managed to offend a handful of people lol....

...in this last part, you basically are pointing out that a part of us
which is consciousness is manifesting our reality through distinctions
and our self-mind takes these distinctions and through perceptions
(interpretation and meaning) from this objective reality, creates a
subjective reality based on concepts, thoughts, emotions....etc.

so basically, when we see a tree, the tree is really there, it is not
an illusion, as long as we are perceiving for-itself and as-itself, but
since our self-mind works in relation to itself, it likes to form concepts
of these objective-objects...and then perceives this "concept" and
not what is actually there.

...but, in the big scheme of things this is not that important of course,
because everything that we perceive is based on DISTINCTIONS
and it doesn't matter if the object exists in reality or if it is only
a thought, emotion, etc...there is still consciousness manifesting
this "thing" through the function of distinction.

...distinction/the difference between one thing and another "is" what
creates reality...and this is the element of consciousness that is
responsible for what we perceive on a moment to moment basis.

...and in the end, it does not matter with what senses we are
perceiving, we are still making non-stop distinctions, and basically
"are" manifesting our own realities every present moment.

...if you stop making distinctions...you and the world around you will
simply vanish...and be what it is in its fundamental state...nothing