Input needed! Clones of clones or mothers?

[Lrus007]

i say clone from a clone.
done it a very long time.
Lrus007

 

[frostymantin]

its just deviding cells, as long as you have the same plant, with the same cells, the cells will be the same age and the baby plants will have the same cells.

 

[EclipseFour20]

In theory...clone of a clone of a clone should be identical as it's mother.

But as we treat our plants with pesticides, oils, systemics, not to mention the plants' SAR and consequences of past encounters with attacking insects and their vectors, toxins, and fungal messes...these stressful events NOW become part of the plant (and part of each clone of a clone of a clone from that plant)...and we quickly forget, the mother may not have experienced these stressful events--unlike the clone.

Then we have a thing called recessive traits--which usually are undesirable. It happens, we clone 100 clones--and say 5 go freaky with a recessive trait. Should all your clones now be cloned from that freak plant (dominant with a particular a recessive trait), guess what your new clones will be...a freak; unlike the mother.

Ohhh hum, I clone from mothers...which came from best and strongest clones of a clone, of a clone--and I replace my mothers a once or twice each year. Any clone that is weak, problematic or exhibits recessive traits gets dispatched to the trash.

Cheers!

 

[Tunchie]

i have been growing for years, and so has a close relative. He takes clones of clones and only grows the same plant.... many of them...same plant for years.....and I have honestly noticed an extreme loss in potency on the strain over the years

 

[MileHighGuy]

There might be multiple variables at play there Tunechi. At least I think that's how Lil Wayne's Grandma spells it.

Eclipse! That makes perfect sense. Mothers, clones... whatever. Just make sure that shit is tip top healthy.

 

[TranceAddictT7]

It's more of a convenience thing for me. If you take clones of clones then you have to be sure you do it before you initiate flowering. If you procrastinate like I do that means you wait until the last week and then if something comes up you might end up taking really shitty clones. On the other hand, mother plants require more maintenance. The upside is that if you enjoy gardening maintaining them can be a stress relieving activity.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Had a similar discussion at the hydro shop...and it was suggested that if growers limit their clone candidates to lollipop trim & unwanted small branches--leaving behind all the big fat productive branches (for buddage), AND this practice is continued for multiple generations--then degradation is almost guaranteed.

Makes sense to me!

 

[hereigrow]

i have been growing for years, and so has a close relative. He takes clones of clones and only grows the same plant.... many of them...same plant for years.....and I have honestly noticed an extreme loss in potency on the strain over the years

prob more because you smoke it too much.....than the cut actually loosing potency

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Clones do get old and will lose vigor regardless of whether you keep a mother plant or take a clone of a clone. The heart of the problem is very simple, old age. Like all living things, as our beloved plants age they slowly accumulate genetic defects during the countless times their cells split and reproduce over the years. Think of a human being. A human at age 90 has the same DNA blueprint as they did when they were 20 yet the 20 year old will always outperform the 90 year old version. The same is roughly true of plants.

If you want clones to plant a new grape field for wine, do you think it makes a difference if the mother vine to be cloned is from a young plant or 100 years old plant? Does it need to be from seed (the old mother plant) or can you clone a clone from a clone from a clone etc, from a new seed plant and get the same results each time?

There is the potential for a slightly quicker aging and degradation of the cut if you keep taking clones of clones simply because when people use this method, each time they take the new clone it is after the plant has been forced through very rapid growth in veg. Where as with a mother plant, people tend to leave them in intentionally poor growing conditions such as low nutes and low light so they both grow and age more slowly.

The shorter the plants natural life would have been, the faster the cut will show its age.
At one extreme you have Ruderalis strains which really can't be forced to live beyond the single very short growing season they have adapted to live their entire lives within since they originate from very high latitudes with short growing seasons.

WRONG, Ruderallis can be cell cultured or callus cultured and they live forever.

Indicas cuts age much better than the Ruderalis, but they still are not naturally long lived plants since most originate from temperate latitudes with harsh winters. From what I have seen a very indica leaning cut will tend to go noticeably downhill after about 5 years or so and at 10 years its very evident that the plant isn't what it used to be. When a cut gets old it usually won't effect the quality that much but rather the vigor of the plant. You end up having to veg it longer and longer to get the same yield you used when they were young.

Never saw this with any of my hundreds of clones I have had for 10-25+ years now WLD, NLD, WLH, NLH.

Tropical sativas which naturally have life spans that are not limited to a single growing season are not surprisingly the cuts that age best. I have heard of old tropical sativa cuts that are literally decades old and still alive and kicking.

Sativas are not limited to being an annual plant? Even if grown up North in the snow?? Or just on the equator? They are an annual.
-Sams

Hybrids tend to fall somewhere between pure indicas and sativas.

X

 

[RonSmooth]

The term "mother" is misleading as it implies the cuttings are somehow progeny.

There has to be a more accurate term?

 

[EclipseFour20]

And the word "cloning" is also misleading--as there are zero "cloning" actions performed. What we are really doing is "leaf-petiole rooting"--but that does not sound "cool".

Words...don't like the meaning, then change the meaning to suit your needs....lol.

IMHO, it is easier to adapt to the "current vernacular" than to "change it".

Cheers!