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Indiana Supreme Court; No Right To Resist Unlawful Entry.

jack Haze

Member
This is outright insane. I'm sure it'll be blown out of the water eventually but I see a negative trend in our Constitutional Rights.

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...0/Court-No-right-resist-unlawful-police-entry

People have no right to resist if police officers illegally enter their home, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled in a decision that overturns centuries of common law.
The court issued its 3-2 ruling on Thursday, contending that allowing residents to resist officers who enter their homes without any right would increase the risk of violent confrontation. If police enter a home illegally, the courts are the proper place to protest it, Justice Steven David said.
"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest."
Justices Robert Rucker and Brent Dickson strongly dissented, saying the ruling runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure, The Times of Munster reported.
"In my view the majority sweeps with far too broad a brush by essentially telling Indiana citizens that government agents may now enter their homes illegally -- that is, without the necessity of a warrant, consent or exigent circumstances," Rucker said.
Both dissenting justices suggested they would have supported the ruling if the court had limited its scope to stripping the right to resist officers who enter homes illegally in cases where they suspect domestic violence is being committed.
But Dickson said, "The wholesale abrogation of the historic right of a person to reasonably resist unlawful police entry into his dwelling is unwarranted and unnecessarily broad."
The court's decision stemmed from a Vanderburgh County case in which a man yelled at police and blocked them from entering his apartment to investigate a domestic disturbance. The man shoved a police officer who entered anyway and was shocked with a stun gun and arrested.
Valparaiso University School of Law professor Ivan Bodensteiner told The Times that the court's decision is consistent with the idea of preventing violence.
"It's not surprising that they would say there's no right to beat the hell out of the officer," Bodensteiner said. "(The court is saying) we would rather opt on the side of saying if the police act wrongfully in entering your house your remedy is under law, to bring a civil action against the officer."
Thursday's decision was the court's second ruling this week involving police entry into a home.
On Tuesday, the court said police serving a warrant may enter a home without knocking if officers decide circumstances justify it. Previously, police serving a warrant had to obtain a judge's permission to enter without knocking.
 
F

FinallyFree

Saw this...this is insane. We are going to continue to see policies like these enforced by the government and judges who are paid off by corporate and authoritarian interests.

The system is broke, simple as that. Attempting to rationalize anything at this point is pointless, because everything they do is irrational.

Welcome to the Police State.
Welcome to the New World Order.

Police State 4: RISE OF FEMA
 

jack Haze

Member
This is why there is the 2nd Amendment.

-Funk

So...Say you have an illegal grow going. The cops show up without a warrant and attempt to gain entry to your house.

You would then shoot at them? You're willing to go down, not only for the illegal grow but also for murdering/attempting to murder a LEO?

Not only would that seal your fate of life imprisonment/the death penalty. It also adds credence to their illogical propaganda and adds ammo to their altering reality and gaining the public's trust that growers are barbaric, ruthless individuals with no regard for anyone else's lives.
 
Jack sometimes you gotta fight fire w/ fire. Americans have been bent over w/out Vaseline for long enough when are the sheeple going to awake from their slumber?
 

inquest

Member
Freedom.... sadly I believe that day is when it's plainly evident to ALL citizens that politicians are merely the marionettes of the same ol' slave owners throughout history, the wealthy. Look what they've done to American and European economies with all their brilliant ideas to "help garner wealth for the masses" IE: strip moneys from everyone thats stupid or ignorant enough to let them..... Come on everybody, just check into cash!! Get a payday loan! Sign on a subprime mortgage! Reverse mortgage your home! Re-mortgage your home, etc...... These fuckers have been doing this for hundreds to thousands of years.... Newest one I heard today was China wants to start buying Iowa farmland..... Where's THAT gonna end up?!?!
 

jack Haze

Member
Jack sometimes you gotta fight fire w/ fire. Americans have been bent over w/out Vaseline for long enough when are the sheeple going to awake from their slumber?

I agree in theory, however in reality it just sets back the legitimate work that others have worked intensely on.

If someone were to just kick the door in unannounced and you don't know if it's a home invader or cop...I say fire at will. If the homeowner is aware it's the cops and fires anyway. That just sets us back a few decades as now it would be broadcast that all growers/possessors are evil and a danger to society.

As voters, there are far better ways to fight unconstitutional acts.
 

EastFortRock

Active member
Most of the time, cops show up with a swat team if they want to come in your house. If cops bust into my house, I'm not making any sudden moves , lawsuit later.
 

paladin420

FACILITATOR
Veteran
If you are on some state program,food stamps whatever, they don't need a warrant. Watched as neighbors where searched, piss tested, we gonna take ur kids away. whole thang. Then Oops I guess the teachers were wrong. No sorry nothin.
I am legal. Kick my door in you are just a ripper.
 
A

ak-51

I have no problem with this ruling.

Ok, I know that we don't like the ramifications that this law may have on us specifically. What you need to do is look at the larger picture, look at how this law applies to people other than yourself. A lot of people I know have an absolutely backwards idea of the legal system, how laws work, and what is and isn't legal. The courts are the place to fight injustice or improper police action. If the courts are broken then we need to fix them, not make the streets into the wild west where every asshole can decide he doesn't think a law is just and open fire. You just can't have citizens, with no judicial, legal or law enforcement training, deciding on the spot that something isn't legal and resisting law enforcement. Anyway, imagine that the ruling went the other way, how is that really going to effect me? If the police enter my home for a search and I think it's unlawful what am I going to throw down fisticuffs with them? Grab a gun and start firing? I don't really see how any of that is productive. They'd call for backup, overwhelm me with force, likely kill or injure me, and still search the home.

I know there's a lot of hate on here for LEO, and a lot of it is rightfully so. I would expect it on this forum considering what it is we do. Let's not forget that a civil society is based on the rule of law, not survival of the fittest. Police are assholes? Ok, whatever, they're going to be here whether we like it or not.

The other problem is this: If the police know that they can expect resistance, how do you think that's going to effect how often they use SWAT with no-knock warrants? They'd pretty much have to use them all the time, and then it would be for their own legitimate safety instead of the usual bullshit that they use them for now.

Hey jack, found another gem of the legal system..

Supreme court ok's warrantless searches
I really don't think this changes a lot. As far as I have understood it, police have always been able to enter a home if they believed that a crime was currently being committed or evidence being destroyed. As Ginsburg stated in her dissent, the problem is that this can be very widely interpreted. If police knock on the door of a suspected meth lab house and see an occupant grab a large bag and seconds later hear the sound of the toilet flushing repeatedly I think that gives them probable cause (or reasonable suspicion, can never keep those two straight) to enter the home. What I would want to avoid is allowing the police widespread use of the magic phrase "I detected the smell of marijuana" that allows them to do whatever they want. I think we all know that that phrase is already used way way to much.
 

Pinball Wizard

The wand chooses the wizard
Veteran
People lost what few rights they had driving a car. Now, the police go after the 'at home' rights.

It's a war of terror.
 

ImaginaryFriend

Fuck Entropy.
Veteran
We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said.
This is a retarded statement.

A man cannot claim the protections of his office when acting out of office.

An unlawful police entry is unlawful, and no officer of the law can (and maintain his status) operate out side of the law.

He becomes, in absence of process, just another armed invader.

Without process, if I kick in your door yelling "Police", and you have no way of establishing the veracity of the claim, your response in self defense has merit.

If a 'cop' illegally kicks in your door, yelling 'Police', and you have no way of establishing the veracity of the claim, your response in self-defense has merit.

This is the kinda shit that never ends well. For anyone. Anywhere.


I have no problem with this ruling.
Wrong. I should say, your rationale that it is lawful is wrong. You are free to have a problem, or no problem, with any ruling you want. But it is only within the context that this ruling is without merit that you have that option.

The courts are the place to fight injustice or improper police action.
Wrong. Reread something. Anything. This history of the country. The intent of its founding. Jefferson.

Presuming the courts are operating in the interest of the population is evidence that you have not been in the system, or ever met anyone in the system, or read a newspaper article about the system, or watched a TV show about the system.

If the courts are broken then we need to fix them, not make the streets into the wild west where every asshole can decide he doesn't think a law is just and open fire.
Wrong. The structure of the courts precludes our repair of them. The intent of this country's founding laws is designed to guarantee a possibility of what you just prohibit... namely the discharge of a government that no longer serves the people by force of arms if legal means are exhausted. (This article contributes to the pile of evidence that they are.)

deciding on the spot that something isn't legal and resisting law enforcement.
Wrong. Home invasion, on the spot, is not legal. It is not something that is being decided, but Natural Law.

They'd pretty much have to use them all the time, and then it would be for their own legitimate safety instead of the usual bullshit that they use them for now.
Wrong. They should always use them. If they presume their purpose is so precarious that they cannot give notice to occupants, they should go it under full armor, shock and awe the fuck out of the situation, and hopefully no one dies. It

I really don't think this changes a lot.
Wrong. It takes the judges role out of the picture, consolidates power in the hands of those who have not been chosen for it. No one can steal the liberty of anyone without cause under any fucking circumstances. Expedited law enforcement is not an exception to Natural Law.

The government is at the service of the people and at the convenience of the people. It cannot put it's own needs ahead of the people. It is limited in its actions by its role as servant.
 

jack Haze

Member
What you need to do is look at the larger picture, look at how this law applies to people other than yourself.

The bigger picture is all our basic freedoms are being stripped. Few people challenge this and it just makes it easier to strip the next Constitutional Right.

Sure, in a perfect world and perfect circumstances where cops aren't crooked. This could be a good thing. I think most of us are aware of how LEO typically work. The Big Picture is this. If we keep going in the direction we are. In another 10 years the US will be no different than Iraq or Afghanistan. We will have no rights whatsoever and our decisions will ultimately be made for us.

Our Country and core beliefs are based on the Constitution. Slowly but surely those rights and beliefs are being tossed to the wayside.
 
In California they passed a law that gives cops the ability to enter a home with out a warrant. If a cop suspects that there is an underage drinker in the house they may enter with out a search warrant. This law was just passed a few months ago.
 
Jack exactly! They take baby steps. If they were to just drop all their global (NWO) Draconian laws all at once we would say HELL NO. But they do it in baby steps, step by step and the sheeple except it or are to busy watching some fake reality TV show.
 

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