In Need of Some Advice

[Blest_1]

First off Id like to start off with Im somewhat of a newb. Ive had several completed grows but they were all deficiency free. Now that I have one its kicking my @ss. I have a basic soil mix of Pro Mix for containers with a bag of MG organic. A cup of blood/bone meal and a 1/4 cup lime. I havent had a chance to test runoff yet. But I water with a ph of 6.5

So I transplanted these Apollo Orange clones I have in hopes of going into flowering next week, a week and a half ago. Well I gave them a moderate watering and went out of town for 4 days. When I came back they were showing signs of MG or Cal deficiency.

So I started a tsp/gal of Calmag dosage. Here I am 4 days later, and the problem has spread to an average of 25-40% of the plants.

Ive come to the conclusion that my soil mix is the root of my problem.

Can anyone offer some advice on how to remedy this problem?

I was thinking about transplanting into my flowering planters with an alternate soil mix, but I want to be sure this might work before I do it.

 

[Queso45]

If it is a nutrient deficiency, transplanting into the right soil will probably fix your problem. But it might not be a nutrient issue so the weed doctors are probably going to want you to check the PH of your runoff. They'll probably ask for pictures too.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Use straight promix? I really don't see why people add to that mix. Do they feel they need to use a pH meter. You have a pH adjusted product @ 5.5 - 6.5
What are you achieving that you can't get with straight PM? Plants need N in Veg so when you water you feed them....That's all. I spray some of my girls with Epsom when they show a mag issue, clears it right up in 2 days.

It's the perfect method of growing. I'm not the perfect grower or I'd put my no pH crops against Any other dirt/soil/dung grow. I'm still proud of my no fuss grows don't get me wrong. I just don't always follow the "guidelines" for the most outstanding crop.

 

[HeadyPete]

sirgrassalot, the problem with relying on "ph'd" soils is they will not hold ph if the nutes you are adding are very acidic or alkaline, plus over time that buffer will disappear. Guanos and fish meals are very acidic and will drop soil ph regardless of lime. Natural microbial action, and plant's taking up nutrients (cal and mag) will lower ph as well. You still need to check runoff and adjust nutes to counteract. You are lucky to have nutes, soil and water that all happen to combine to a good ph, but if one of those ever goes out (ie. municipalities change their water sanitizing programs and change ph), how will you know where to look and what to correct when you have problems?

Blest, the reason you are not seeing results is probably because your runoff ph is out. How much soil did you mix 1/4 cup lime with? You need to test runoff first to determine if out of range ph is locking out your mag. Adding more C/M to locked soil will contribute to nute burn (c/m is 2-0-0) but will not correct your issue.

I'd also like to see some pix to confirm you do indeed have mag def.

 

[sirgrassalot]

It's never happened. If the horse hadn't of stopped to shit he may have won the race? Yes the entire Country is blessed with fresh water. Except Waterford you don't want to drink that.
The Pro-Mix is Canadian

 

[HeadyPete]

but you can see the value of being in control of all variables, right?

 

[sirgrassalot]

I don't waste time. Knowledge is key to success.

Just thinking it being Canadian is probably why Organized Crime here uses this method of growing & they've passed it on to the percy throwers.

 

[The_Leader]

ok my 2 cents worth.

you are in single containers(one plant/one pot?) if so and ALL plants are showing same signs? i would start w/my enviroment. rh an temps. ph is a key to growing, but ime when ALL plants go at once its enviroment. it could be ph, but every pot is different and for all to be snafu? in hydro ph throws all off.

just thinking of something to think on.

 

[sirgrassalot]

sirgrassalot, the problem with relying on "ph'd" soils is they will not hold ph if the nutes you are adding are very acidic or alkaline, plus over time that buffer will disappear. Guanos and fish meals are very acidic and will drop soil ph regardless of lime. Natural microbial action, and plant's taking up nutrients (cal and mag) will lower ph as well. You still need to check runoff and adjust nutes to counteract.

You are lucky to have nutes, soil and water that all happen to combine to a good ph, but if one of those ever goes out (ie. municipalities change their water sanitizing programs and change ph), how will you know where to look and what to correct when you have problems?

I've answered the lower italic already but I'd like to address the top portion which is in response to me asking "What are you trying to achieve by adding anything to the pro-mix?"

So Pete it does Nothing in terms of the plant actually growing...The main nutrient a plant needs is Nitrogen you should feed the plant 5-1-1 fish emulsion in Veg early bloom. PBP bloom & PK 13-14 as booster with water in flower. So thus far the extras are doing Nothing. My nutrients are top shelf & not messing with the pro-mix's pH.

Pro-Mix is rated for 2 years. Lime can react for 3 years. Are you vegetating for a year? It may be wise to add some lime as it'll take quite a while for it to beneficial. It's not necessary in a normal grow. If you know your water is whacked out, first be careful drinking it & adjust as needed. The HP pro-mix has no vermiculite but has 15% more perlite (coarse) than the BX if you like that better.

With all that said check your pH if in doubt. Anyone wants to test that type grow, let me know. I'll walk you through it.

 

[Blest_1]

The mix/nute regimen is actually from BOG several years ago, it has worked quite well for me. I actually have a cup of lime instead of 1/4.

I usually wait until the roots fill the pot a little before I water enough to test the ph of the runoff. So the next time I water I should be able to test it.

*edit

Im actually going to end up using the bales of premier peat moss instead of promix this time. Seeing how I have to drive 3 hours to find Promix, and they only carry the Ultimate Potting Mix no HP, and only in the small bags no bales.


Heres some pics

 

[sirgrassalot]

Is that HH Syndrome. Any tech info on the peat?

 

[Blest_1]

Nope..Thats why I figured it was something with my soil. I have one of the same clones I didnt transplant, sitting in its original mix next to the others. No signs of any def.'s. Its been inside the same amount of time the others have been inside.

The plan was to be transplanting on monday for flowering. So I was thinking about going ahead with the plan. In hopes that this would help the problem. But Im also paranoid about going into flowering with a deficiency like this. They are getting pretty close to 20" tall so I need to get them in flowering soon.

As for the Peat Moss, Im having h*ll finding Promix HP here, all I can find is the Ultimate Container Mix. And its a pain in the @ss to get. The local HD's carry Premier Peat Moss. So I was thinking about subbing that for the HP. I dont have a nute profile although I think it's str8 peat. Heres a pic

 

[sirgrassalot]

Ultimate Container Mix - It also contains a SLOW RELEASE FERTILIZER.
Peat Moss Info

HP =
70% Peat
30% Perlite
Calcitic & dolomitic lime
Wetting agent

BOG recipe should be fine so I'm not quite agreeing it's the mix if it was followed correctly. You could use bog* lime but it's slow acting: So that's not a HH than is it something similar? Is that the first time you've had it closed up for that length of time - 4 days or so during Veg? You need to feed them N have you done that did I miss it outside of the blood meal? Is the original mix potting soil you would need less feed at this time - so the one plant that's doing OK may have the correct amount of food.

 

[MynameStitch]

So Pete it does Nothing in terms of the plant actually growing...The main nutrient a plant needs is Nitrogen you should feed the plant 5-1-1 fish emulsion in Veg early bloom. PBP bloom & PK 13-14 as booster with water in flower. So thus far the extras are doing Nothing. My nutrients are top shelf & not messing with the pro-mix's pH.


Plants need way more nutrients in veg than just nitrogen, every strain is also different so what works for you may not work for others.
In bloom they need good levels of cal,P,K and some magnesium. Not just bloom ferts.
Lime only lasts for as long as it is in the soil, if you frequent water your plants it won't last anywhere near the time that it said.
Dolomite lime even though slow to act, would not last 3 years in our soil mixtures.


Are you growing in a HH Blest?

 

[sirgrassalot]

What works for you may not work for others. Yes I know they need more I asked why the extras in the perfect soil mix. I don't agree about washing off the limes in pro-mix although if you flush a zillion times I suggest it didn't matter how much lime you added & only put some in when your pH or garden needs it.

An outdoor gardener would have a certain amount of lime he would use on his soil & that would of been best put down in the fall with winter & spring run offs he'd have to apply it again ?? or he has compensated by knowing his local & soil. I see why I've read where people let their mixes sit for months this may be one of the reasons. Allowing the lime to react in time to benefit an annual crop & turn the organisms etc.

Here's what I see as the reason...
The dolomitic lime is for Mg and Ca. & raise the pH.
Blood meal for Nitrogen
Bone meal for Phosphorus & Calcium

I can tell you all you need to add to that pro-mix is fish emulsion & water the Cannabis plant will thrive like a weed. If they develop minor deficiencies they're remedied very fast. I don't see adding these things hurting or helping much if it's not over done.

I said "Lime can react for 3 years."

Nothing but 5-1-1 & some Epsom sprayed 2 weeks ago. Just fed 15hrs earlier with 15% & water. She's right on the brink of being overfed & ready for business. You can see the new growth on the tips in 6 hours.

 

[Blest_1]

Its actually a hydrofarm habitat. I dont believe its the tent itself because I have had a completely unaffected clone that I didnt transplant inside the tent the same amount of time as the dying clones *sniff. Thats why Im thinking my soil mix is screwed somehow.

Theres only two things I changed in my soil mix from the previous 4 grows Ive completed. No one sold dolomite lime where I live now so I bought some garden lime from a local feed supply store. The other was using the Promix ultimate container mix instead of the HP. I am going to test the ph of the runoff on my next day (2-3 days) to water the sickies.

I was going to transplant into my flowering containers monday as planned. But now Im starting to think Id be wasting my time and money. The problem doesnt seem to be progressing as much as it was previously if it hasnt stopped altogether. But Im thinking its probably too late. So lets talk about options now...

Clone what I can and kill the rest, or start some new seeds. Either way Im looking at a long @ss time before I get anything into flowering. Or should I stick it out and try and save the few that dont have more than say 30% yellow fever? From what Ive read the growth that is yellow is pretty much goners.

 

[MynameStitch]

The only thing that would affect your grow from your info you gave would be the pH differences...... when you run soiless even if you don't a digital pH pen is one thing you must have to make sure your readings are accurate.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Funny thing about recipe's if you don't follow them you're experimenting. That time releasing nutrient pro-mix is 5.5 –7.0. with only Dolomite Lime added. Dolomite lime is similar to garden lime only it contains a higher percentage of magnesium.

 

[Blest_1]

Well I flushed them today to get the ph reading. 3 were 6.27-9, 6 were in the 6.30-5. The last one was weird, I dont know what the h3ll happened to it but it was 6.7.

 

[The_Leader]

speaking strictly from expierence here from my days on that desolate island in SE alaska where i had to get perlite flown in w/my ferts from cali. $cha ching$ out my ass. my ladies hated powdered garden lime. it actually smelt like ammonia sometimes. bad. im a dolomite freak. n ak i had no choise, so i thought, and payed w/bad plant problems.

i cant give a sientific reason. all i know is I couldnt make it work w/weed. but
dlime is a new story. check my gallery. that is my mix w/dl. 1oz dl to 1l soil.