I'm seeing spots!

[KlagDragon]

Ok guys, I've got a couple girls that are showing brown spots on the fan leaves that get gradually worse until the leaves die completely and fall off. The new growth looks good on most of the plants.

I've attached a picture of the spotting.

How long has this problem been going on? started 2 weeks ago and increasing
What STRAIN are you growing? bag seed/unknown
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants? 4 weeks veg, 14 days flower
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? about 14 days
How Tall are the plants? about 1.5 ft
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) natural/untrained
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 2L
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) 1:1 fox farm ocean forest and small pearlite. These sees were started in MG Moisture control (terrible idea!)
What Nutrient's are you using? only applied nutes once, FF tiger bloom and ff big bloom at 25% strength. I've been getting the feeling that the soil was way too hot for the seedlings and after repotting they don't seem to be recovering but are showing different symptoms (the spotting)
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? 1/4 the ammount suggested on label
How often are you feeding? twice, usually every third watering
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? when I switched to 12/12 about 2 weeks ago
What order are you mixing your nutrients? unknown
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? dunno
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? ~7 (water/nutes is about 6-6.5 going in)
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? ph strips
How often are you watering? once every 3-4 days or when needed
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? one week ago
What size bulb are you using? 400hps
What is the distance to the canopy? 6-8 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 40%-50%
What is the canopy temperature? 72-76
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) about 72-72 day and down to 68 at night
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)plenty
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? closet with one dedicated intake fan and on exhaust fan that pulls through the light and ballast to cool them. 5500btu AC on thermostat. one fan just blowing on the plants
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? one is
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? I let it dry out until the pots are light, then I water until I see runoff
Is your water HARD or SOFT? HARD
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap water, but I try to let it sit out for ~7 days before I use it. It comes out of the tap at about pH 8 and I lower it to 6-6.5
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no other than leaves that were dead
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? none
Are plant's infected with pest's? had a couple fungus gnats when no fan was blowing on the plants, no sign of them in a while now

Thanks for the help guys. I'm getting really frustrated with this. Everbody makes it sound so easy and I just can't seem to get it right.

I can't get the damn picture to show up, heres a link:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=3870&pictureid=55312

 

[JamieShoes]

 

[JamieShoes]

looks like this one to me mate (from the complete sck plants guide) this is magenese deficiency in the picture... but thats my complete newbie opinion, nothing more...

 

[Nathindica]

im gonna go ahead and say she wants a bigger container. half a gallon seems a bit small for the size of that plant. have a pic of the whole thing? pH pens are cheap and much more accurate than strips. id recommend one.

let others chime in before doin anything based on my advice. im new at this.

 

[KlagDragon]

looks like this one to me mate (from the complete sck plants guide) this is magenese deficiency in the picture... but thats my complete newbie opinion, nothing more...

Yeah, I thought about that, but it's so hard to tell from the blurry pics in that thread. That plant looks a lot farther along than mine, and I'm seeing less yellowing of the leaves, and more the brown spots that eventually get so numerous that they kill the leaf. I obviously don't know though, that's why I asked here!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap water, but I try to let it sit out for ~7 days before I use it. It comes out of the tap at about pH 8 and I lower it to 6-6.5

Part of your problem is your tap water. Use RO water for at least a week and you'll be able to get a better read if there's anything else wrong with your plants.

I'm guessing a switch will make most of that go away immediately. (The damaged leaves will not recover but the damage will stop spreading)

 

[KlagDragon]

Part of your problem is your tap water. Use RO water for at least a week and you'll be able to get a better read if there's anything else wrong with your plants.

I'm guessing a switch will make most of that go away immediately. (The damaged leaves will not recover but the damage will stop spreading)

I was afraid the water would become an issue at some point. It's city water, but judging by the deposits it leaves behind in the shower and faucets, it's pretty hard. I understand I can buy bottles of RO water, or buy an RO unit, but are either expensive or something I have to do frequently. The cheapest RO unit I've seen around here (southern us) was about $200, are there cheaper options?

 

[KlagDragon]

im gonna go ahead and say she wants a bigger container. half a gallon seems a bit small for the size of that plant. have a pic of the whole thing? pH pens are cheap and much more accurate than strips. id recommend one.

let others chime in before doin anything based on my advice. im new at this.

This is also in the works. I'm having a hard time finding pots that aren't overly short and fat, all the ones I seem to find take up a lot of space that would otherwise be occupied by more plants.

My intent with this for the short term is to grow bagseed 12/12 from seed. This requires a lot of plants because so many are throw aways.

 

[Nathindica]

if you just need it to flush id say just get a few gallons of it for now. i get distilled from the grocery store and its cheap and gets the job done. but my water is soft and i dont really need a RO system. if your water is quite hard, as you say it is, id look into the systems. check ebay. ive seen some small ones for like 80 bucks.

 

[Nathindica]

check ebay. most are around 120. if you plan on growing past these plants i'd consider the investment. youll plants will thank you.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I was afraid the water would become an issue at some point. It's city water, but judging by the deposits it leaves behind in the shower and faucets, it's pretty hard. I understand I can buy bottles of RO water, or buy an RO unit, but are either expensive or something I have to do frequently. The cheapest RO unit I've seen around here (southern us) was about $200, are there cheaper options?

Check e-bay. You can get an excellent 5 stage unit for $135 leaving you cash for a water container that fits your specific needs.

Please ignore any advice you get from anyone else until you water for a week or two with RO and full str nutes. Do NOT flush, even to flush out your tap water. You'll be fine.

If you're having probs in 2 weeks, your problem will be much easier to diagnose and you should have no problems figuring it out on your own. (Be sure to ask if you can't though. )

 

[Hydro-Soil]

thats the worst advice I've seen anywhere on these boards. unless of course you know more than everyone else here...

IME with hard water and plants. Yeah, I've got his problem pegged. Anyone advising he goes to RO water is fine. Flushing or anything else but RO and good feed is just retarded. Again, in my experience.

I don't have to know more than everyone else here. Just this particular issue.

 

[JamieShoes]

good luck with everything

 

[Nathindica]

I was afraid the water would become an issue at some point. It's city water, but judging by the deposits it leaves behind in the shower and faucets, it's pretty hard.

It leaves salt buildup on the faucets. There must be a bunch of salt buildup in that small amount of soil. You REALLY don't think he should flush it and then continue feeding normally with RO water?

Are you one of those organic 'i never flush' types? I think this guy might need one. But hey what do i know. Look how many posts I have...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

It leaves salt buildup on the faucets. There must be a bunch of salt buildup in that small amount of soil. You REALLY don't think he should flush it and then continue feeding normally with RO water?

Are you one of those organic 'i never flush' types? I think this guy might need one. But hey what do i know. Look how many posts I have...

The plants will be just fine
They already have nute issues and the salt buildup isn't really that bad. (If it was his plants would look like some of mine have, before they died.) Getting the nutes back through will help the plant and using RO will naturally help wash out the salt buildup that's already present.

I've gone rounds and rounds and rounds with my mums since I was able to start growing again. The first 6 months were pretty rough with no money so I've seen pretty much everything there is to see with hard water, RO, nutes and no-nutes. Classic. Never would have seen any of it if I'd started with a full budget. LOL

I'm actually glad that information was picked up during that time.

 

[KlagDragon]

Unfortunately things aren't going so well. All the plants that were previously effected have gotten worse. I've been watering with RO water since the last posts and things are not improving, in fact, some of the plants that were unaffected have now developed the brownish/purpleish spots. Several of the plants are almost bare of leaves because all the fan leaves have fallen off. Since the last post I have watered several times with pH'd water and once with 1/2 strength fox farm nutes. All conditions are still as shown in the first post unless otherwise noted.

Pics:

Thanks

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Since the last post I have watered several times with pH'd water and once with 1/2 strength fox farm nutes.

Yes. You're seeing exactly what should be happening.

I said full str nutes. You're starving them to death.

 

[drow]

I have almost the same problem. I had the prob in veg with moms. I still didnt know exactly what was causing it, but I solved it though (I hope). What I did was basically replant the plant.

At first I guessed a nute and pot bound plant problem, so I first cut off all the dying leaves. Then I wet the soil, and took the plant out of the pot. I then used a knife and cut all four corners about 1/4-1 inch of the roots (see overgrow faq on bonsai moms)
I transplanted it into a bigger pot with fresh moist soil and watered it with full str nutes w/ 2 drop superthrive. A week went by and it has jumped in size and all healthy green, (it even has bigger leaves) I guess something was causing it to be stunted, leaves were small and yellowing and spots were seen, but now I have no prob.

Now I am having problems with rusting in flower Im guessing either a cal or nute def. If you want to take a look I have a thread here

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=120247

 

[Blue Dot]

Unfortunately things aren't going so well. All the plants that were previously effected have gotten worse. I've been watering with RO water since the last posts and things are not improving, in fact, some of the plants that were unaffected have now developed the brownish/purpleish spots. Several of the plants are almost bare of leaves because all the fan leaves have fallen off. Since the last post I have watered several times with pH'd water and once with 1/2 strength fox farm nutes. All conditions are still as shown in the first post unless otherwise noted.

Pics:

Thanks

I'm thinking K def.

Either your nutes don't have enough which is usually not the case, but rather that the K is locked in by high soil ppm, your pH is off and/or you have too much Ca antagonism going on which is a huge problem with hard water.

Eliminate all the Ca by going RO, flush to liberate the soil ppm build-up thereby unlocking the K and feed your plant K-Mag to out-compete the Ca.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

If you are seeing spots, then stop looking directly into your hps light. jk
I agree with blue dot again, this is happening in lots of forums today