I was told today by a Sun System rep..

[Jamorg13]

That he has "heard", but could not verify, that there is no difference between the ignitors that come in magnetic ballasts and the replacement long distance ones that are rated to fire up to 75 feet. I got a few of the long range ignitors a few months back and have loved them thus far. They have been firing flawlessly at 65ft. I am looking to find more but neither hydrofarm nor sun systems knows that these even exist. The shop that I got them from last time is now closed so I cant even ask him where he got them.

Should I try to fire a ballast with its factory ignitor at 75ft per what he said? Or is this asking for a fire?​

​

 

[the gnome]

the only thing with running long distances and hi draw elec. equip is the size of the cord to get power to it.
the further away you are from the source of power the bigger the cord is needed.
there's a chart somewhere, online you can find I'm sure, that shows how much amps or power in watts and what size wire needed for what distance is needed.


you can run it 150ft away with the proper sized wire.

but again i'm not familiar with ignitors etc etc for mag ballasts

 

[Jamorg13]

So like a 12 gauge cord?

 

[rives]

I've never heard of an ignitor that was good for those distances. You might check with Grow Shop Frank - he seems to have the most experience on here with the variants of grow lighting. I believe that a standard ignitor is rated for 12'-15' and the long-distance ones are for 25'. Yes, distance is a factor because the high-voltage pulse will diminish over longer distances. You can move the ignitor out to the lamp location and not have to worry about it, but you will need an extra conductor in cable between the lamp and the ballast.

 

[burns1n209]

Are your wires hot at all from length, not sure of your situtation but a safer way would be to run a couple direct lines from the breaker to some outlets closer to the ballasts.

 

[Jamorg13]

I've never heard of an ignitor that was good for those distances. You might check with Grow Shop Frank - he seems to have the most experience on here with the variants of grow lighting. I believe that a standard ignitor is rated for 12'-15' and the long-distance ones are for 25'. Yes, distance is a factor because the high-voltage pulse will diminish over longer distances. You can move the ignitor out to the lamp location and not have to worry about it, but you will need an extra conductor in cable between the lamp and the ballast.

Here is one similiar to what I have in the ballasts I have been using.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/PHILIPS-ADVANCE-Ballast-Ignitor-1N118

That is almost three times the price I payed though.

Do you know of any links/tutorials that show how to move the ignitor to the bulb location?

 

[Jamorg13]

Are your wires hot at all from length, not sure of your situtation but a safer way would be to run a couple direct lines from the breaker to some outlets closer to the ballasts.

The wires are not hot at all and they have been running 12/12 for 4 months. I would do that, but the way I have it set up is, a direct line from my panel, to a backroom not in the grow room that has all the ballasts in one centralized location. All the ballasts that are currently in there have there ignitors replaced with long range ignitors that are rated for 75ft. They are currently running great with 65 feet of cord between the ballast and bulb. Problem is I cannot find the ignitors any more(for a reasonable price). The guy told me that the Long range 75ft ignitors are no different from factory ignitors. They just slap a sticker claiming 75ft on the side and mark up the price. This is believable considering all the BS those companies can pull, however I would rather be safe then sorry.

 

[rives]

Here is one similiar to what I have in the ballasts I have been using.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/PHILIPS-ADVANCE-Ballast-Ignitor-1N118

That is almost three times the price I payed though.

Do you know of any links/tutorials that show how to move the ignitor to the bulb location?

Jesus Christ! Now that is a stud horse price! The most difficult part in moving it would be to come up with an enclosure. A 4S box would work, the wires just go to each side of the lamp and one wire back to the center tap on the transformer. I'll look around, I know that I've seen a tutorial somewhere....

*edit* I haven't been able to turn up the tutorial that I was thinking of, but here is a link to a better price on a standard ignitor - http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/4387/ELEC-IGN1000H.html

 

[the gnome]

looking at the pic in the link,
the ignitor looks like a capacitor.... is it?
sorry for the simple Q but I'm still hashing some things out


KAH RIST fookin A thats stud horse price on the sucka!!

 

[Hammerhead]

this might help if you want to relocate the ignitor. Thst has to be one hell of a ignitor for that price..

 

[Jamorg13]

lol yea that price is ridiculous! I got the same exact ones 6 months ago for around $60, but the guy closed up shop.

Hammerhead- I have replaced ignitors before, but how do you replace the ignitor and put the new one externally closer to the bulb? If it had 6 wires coming out of it it would make sense, but 3?

 

[Hammerhead]

You have to extend the 12g wire back to the ballest. rives can give you the right info on parts needed.. the pic I posted gives you a look at what wires you would need to extend. Its really easy to do. You will need a box to install it into cant just leave it out.

http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-E...69&sr=8-2&keywords=small+electrical+enclosure

 

[rives]

As shown on the wiring diagram that HH posted, the white and the red leads coming from the ignitor will go to each wire coming from the socket pigtail, and the blue wire will go back to the ballast. You will just splice in some extra length from where the ignitor is currently hooked up. You should use a 4-wire SO cord (600v rating) so that you can carry the ground with you.

Gnome, I believe that the ignitor is a capacitor with some internal switching so that it provides a high-voltage pulse to start the lamp and then goes off-line. However, I don't recall ever seeing an internal schematic for one, so I might be full of shit.

 

[LeeROI]

[From venturelighting.com:]

HID lamp ignitors provide a brief, high voltage pulse or pulse train to breakdown the gas between the electrodes of an arc lamp. Pulses can range from several hundred volts to 5KV. Typical durations are in the µsec range. They are usually timed to coincide with the peak of OCV. If they are timed too early or too late, lamps may not start reliably.

There are three basic ignitor circuits in wide use. The simplest is a capacitor in series with a voltage sensitive switch that connects across the output of a lag ballast. It is used internationally to start traditional metal halide lamps on 220-230V 50 Hz mercury vapor ballasts. It generates 600V pulses and has the virtue of simplicity and low cost.

The second consists of a capacitor charging circuit and a voltage sensitive switch. It connects to a tap on the output inductive element of the ballast and uses it as a high frequency pulse transformer. This circuit works with lag, HX, CWA, or regulated lag circuits. It is the most common type of ignitor used in North America and growing in popularity internationally. It has the virtue of simplicity and low cost. It requires the ballast insulation system to withstand the pulse voltage; because it is tied to the ballast, the distance the lamp can be mounted from the ballast depends on pulse attenuation. Circuits that generate wide pulses permit greater distance. These circuits are generically referred to as "impulsers."

The third circuit is similar to the first except that it contains a pulse transformer. The virtues are that the ballast insulation is not exposed to pulse voltage. The ignitor can be mounted near the lamp while the ballast can be remote. It can be used with any ballast type. This is the most costly circuit to make, but allows the use of a less expensive ballast. It is the most commonly used circuit internationally. The ignitors are referred to as superimposed ignitors (SIP) because the pulse is superimposed on top of the ballast OCV.

Open Circuit Voltage, Ballast (OCV): The voltage across the output terminals of a ballast when no load is connected (RMS, unless otherwise stated)

 

[imnotcrazy]

Searched PHILIPS ADVANCE LI571-J5-IC on google and found a place that has them for:

$95 ($105 shipped)

but the site says they are back ordered

Amazon seller has for $117.21

 

[Jamorg13]

Ok thanks for all the help guys. I am going to try to do this external ignitor close to the lamp thing. I will post how it goes if I make it out alive!

 

[Hammerhead]

thats an easy fix just make sure you have all the right tools, Be safe turn off the power or unplug the ballest when working on it. What you can do is get a 75' extension cord cut both ends off you have your extension wire for the Ignitor.

 

[rives]

thats an easy fix just make sure you have all the right tools, Be safe turn off the power or unplug the ballest when working on it. What you can do is get a 75' extension cord cut both ends off you have your extension wire for the Ignitor.

He really needs 12/4 SO for this so he can carry the ground with him. Most factory extension cords that I've seen only have a 300v rating, and won't have the 4th conductor.

 

[Hammerhead]

If thats what you recommend I will defer...

 

[Avenger]

the wire should only be 16AWG SO cord (13 amps max rating), as the maximum current on the secondary side of the ballast transformer for a 1000 watt HPS CWA ballst is about 7-8 amps.

in the long distance ignitor scenerio, with the ignitor located at the ballst, increaseing the size of the wire will tend to attenuate the ignitor pulse and cause lamp starting problems.

any hydrofarm retailer can order this long range ignitor for you:
http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=1380

or there is this one(same as the grainger one only cheaper)
http://www.amazon.com/PHILIPS-ADVANCE-LI571-J5-IC-Ballast-Ignitor/dp/B0085BT098


or you can do as rives has said and mount the ignitor at the lamp.