i think i must have some root rot issues starting..

[SEEDYNONO]

hey guys i've got 8 flo plants that are a little over a month old (14-16") in ffof soil cut with 1/3 light warrior and some extra perlite. they are in grow bags instead of pots and i have overwatered them a bit trying to determine the rates of moisture loss now that i run a 600w hps in my c22 cab.

i think i may have some root rot issues starting as the plants have basically been droopy and very slow growing after they had started very fast and healthy. these grow bags don't seem to dry out as fast as the same amount of soil would have with this size plant in regular pots and i think the fact that all the holes are punched on the sides instead of the bottom of the bags causes problems. mostly because the 'walls' of soil get compacted and seperate from the 'walls' of the bags leaving the whole side area in the open air instead of a snug fit with the plastic of the bag. when i water it seems hard to tell if the actual middle part of the soil is getting wet because all the water seems to move to the sides of the bag and spill out the side holes.
i cut about 20 knife size holes in the bottoms but i still don't think enough oxygen gets in the bottom compared to the sides. basically i spent a week trying to remedy this and they went through an entire wet/dry cycle.. steady upward movement of the light (thought it may be too much light) and tons of ph and temp checking and they haven't really changed a bit. the fan leaves just won't stand up! they are fairly healthy looking but just not growing and never reaching up for the light. i am on a 18/6 schedule now instead of 24 but that didn't help either.

basically i think it is root rot. but i can't see the roots being that i'm in soil. i would like to try adding some h202 to the mix but need some specifics on how to go about this. do you agree that droopy leaves and what seems like a continued overwatering symptoms even when the plants are dry could be some rot issues?

i just transplanted them from 1/2 gal to 2 gal grow bags and i moistened the original containers (1/2 gal) soil to help slide out of the bag but i left the newly mixed soil as dry as it was in the bag hoping the whole bag would dry out quick. three days later the bags still feel just as heavy so the plants obviously aren't drinking much water themselves at the moment..

so whats best? should i just hold on tight and wait for the bags to feel completely dry even if it takes a week and the plant just doesn't grow at all during this time? or should i go ahead and drench the bags now with a h2o2 solution? will the h2o2 help the plants from being drowned more and developign more rot if it is there or do you think it will be okay and help out more to get the h2o2 into the soil asap?

also can't find anywhere listing how much h2o2 per gallon of water to use?

i really hope this is the problem because otherwise i am completely stumped.

 

[sproutco]

For soil mixes, use 2 teaspoon (10 ml) 3% hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water.

 

[SEEDYNONO]

cool so you think i should get that into the mix asap?

it's a bit worrying to think of completely drenching the plants again to solve this kind of problem haha! last thing i want is more issues because the whole pot is soaked again and will take even longer to dry out than before..

 

[sproutco]

Give the h2o2 a shot. You should figure out your nutrition. Sounds like the soil is starting to run out of nutes from when you first planted.

Over Watering:

"Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water, if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plant's ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease. This will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth) and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.

"In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution; this may be frominadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish-tan tinge. If they are a brownish color with dead tips or they easily pull away there is at least the beginning of a serious problem. An organic, ‘dirt like’ rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscous circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast.

How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root-rot/over-watering:

"When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse through out the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.

http://www.hightimes.com/ht/grow/content.php?page=act_growshow&id=857&totalrecords=1000

 

[SEEDYNONO]

they were just moved into 4x larger containers than they were in with fresh ff soil mix so they can't have eaten up the goodies in there yet! the roots haven't even had time to feel around in the new soil. plus they got a very weak shot of pbp grow and lk before this whole chronic droopy mess started.

"This will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth) and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water. "

that pretty much sums it up! and was the initial reason for all the water i gave them! they were droopy but it looked like a mix between over and under watering as i've seen both of those before. this is different and wouldn't change with extra days to dry or a fresh watering like the regular watering problems do. that last sentence is what scares me the most but i suppose if you have h2o2 water it will only be able to help as opposed to drowning them more? seems like i need to completely soak the bags with the solution to get it to all the areas roots may be effective.

i'll give it a shot tonight and give them the rest of the week to dry out and see if they pick back up. they were doing so well!

 

[sproutco]

Check the ph of the runoff when you add the h2o2 water. After adding the h2o2 water, add a small amount (few ounces) of distilled water to push out the water from one of the containers/bags. Catch the runoff. Test ph.

 

[SEEDYNONO]

will do.

i checked ph a lot my first grow but keeping everything simple and methods the same i never figured that could be much of a problem since it never changes using mostly ff soil and distilled ozarka water.

 

[sproutco]

Your ph is going to be too high using distilled water. (ph 7) You should add an acid (white vinegar, sulfuric, etc...) to get the ph to about 6 and no higher than 6.5.

 

[SEEDYNONO]

yeah i guess you are right. hasn't ever caused problems tho so i didn't worry about it. with nutes mixed in it drops to 6-ish on its own. i found just leaving everything alone seemed to work identicle to trying to adjust with the kit i had with chemical ph up and down and the hard to read color chart thing.

maybe someday i'll get a pen or something but it just hasn't been an issue.

 

[dre86]

I would transplant a few 'droopy' plants to see whats wrong

 

[SEEDYNONO]

well i waited it out and let them dry completely. i transplanted them and sure enough down near the bottom of the grow bags where the side flaps fold into the bottom there are no drainage holes.. and all the roots had managed to make their way to this area of the bag and were concentrated in the 'wet-feet' zone.

saw some brownish roots so i shook off the soil from the root mass and washed the roots gently with the 2 tsp. per gal. h2o2 solution. helped to clean them up and i let them dry out a bit before transplanting to new 2 gallon growbags. i filled the bags 3/4 up with fresh mix of:

2/3 ffof
1/3 fflw
10% extra perlite

and i wet it down with 1 gal ph adjusted water. then i concentrated most of the root mass near the top and center of the pot and spread a nice amount of the new mix around the roots. then filled in some of the top of the pot above the roots with the old ffof i had shaken off. then i watered each bag with another gallon of nute mix which included:

1/2 tsp. cal/mag+
1tsp. pbp grow
1tsp. lk
1tsp. organic blackstrap mollases

now i sit and wait. updates in a few days.

 

[dre86]

ahh I washed the roots of a plant before, after 1 week she will grow at a good rate again.
Believe it or not but this plant got it's root washed...As you can see she got on the right track again!

I wish your plants the best.