I need my friends at icm advice

[macster]

I currently have a 17 x 10 room that is very porous (unsealed) and I have 2 fans both sucking through a diy scrubber and venting into my cold air returns.
I've a crop that I'm taking off but the problem is the house still reaks like hell,
this is not a dire situation but its a problem that I've got to take care of asap.
I'm going to buy a can filter and rig it up in the room. The question is what is the best way??
Should I just hook up a fan and filter the room air through it or should I hook it up to the cold air returns where my diy scrubber is currently?
Or a conbination of both??
Macster

 

[Guest]

Can't quite get my head around the actual layout but it really does not matter how porous the room is as long as you have negative pressure in the space. This will prevent any odor from leaking. This way every bit of air leaving the room through the exhaust will be filtered. At that point it really does not matter where the air goes as there's no smell if you've sized the carbon scrubber properly.

Sounds like your DIY scrubber is just not up to the task. Check the negative pressure thing too...more fan power could correct that depending on how porous the setup is. It sounds like those pores are your passive intake.

 

[macster]

A pictures worth a thousand words. 2 fans, 1 is 350sfpm the othe 210 sfpm

 

[Guest]

OK...thanx...your filter is totally not up to the task. For one I think you're overdriving it and odor is passing through. For another it's not SFPM but C(cubic)FPM. I'm gonna take a guess you're room height is 8' so that gives you 1260 cubic feet in the grow space. Minimum you want to see is 630 cfm to adequately vent the room so you're close enough. Remember...you lose at least 10 and up to 30% flow through a scrubber. So you're looking at at least a 500 cfm capable scrubber. Just replace the DIY thing you got and you'll prolly be OK. If you can...close up some of those pores.

 

[Guest]

BTW...off the top of my head you'll need something like a Can75 but you may want to take a look at the newer Odor Sok's as they are smaller, weigh almost nothing but do not have a dust prefilter. Hanging something like a Can75 will be a pain (weight).

 

[macster]

My local shop is suggesting a can 66 (2 lights) but do I vent the scrubbed air out of the room or just filter it continuously. I could prefilter the room(unvented) with the new scrubber and vent any excess heat through my DIY scrubber into the cold air return.Its my goal to go co2 soon and this set sounds like it would work.
BTW who sells Odor Soks and do they work??

 

[Guest]

My local shop is suggesting a can 66 (2 lights) but do I vent the scrubbed air out of the room or just filter it continuously. I could prefilter the room(unvented) with the new scrubber and vent any excess heat through my DIY scrubber into the cold air return.Its my goal to go co2 soon and this set sounds like it would work.
BTW who sells Odor Soks and do they work??

I still do not understand why people size a carbon scrubber to the amount of lights or watts someone has. I don't get it. Scrubbers should be sized to the amount of airflow. A Can 66 is rated for 412 cfm and you currently have approximately 560 cfm of air moving through the dual fan setup. A Can 75 is rated for 600 cfm soooo get what I'm saying? Odor Soks are fairly new so I can't find much feedback but people on IC are starting to install them. I'm sure they'll work fine. Good thing about them is they are less expensive than a similar cfm rated Can filter so you can spend a few more bucks and get a larger rated Odor Sok so it should end up lasting longer due to the larger carbon surface area and since there is more surface area for the odor to contact and air speed in relation to surface area is slower it will be more effective in removing odors. The only reason I mentioned the prefilter is for dust removal. I have to take the prefilter off my Can Filter about every 6 months and wash it out to get the dust out. It gets nasty and this reduces air flow. If you get an Odor Sok you must wash the whole damn thing. I'd rather install a prefilter on a Sok. I have to get a new filter very soon and will get either an Odor Sok or an AirReactor refillable unit and neither have prefilters so I gotta rig something up. You could filter the air continuously in a loop if it was a closed system. For an open system you really must scrub the air as it exits. As for the extra heat thing...sure...that's one way of doing it. If going CO2 you won't want to do that though as every time you vent the extra hot air your induced CO2 will go out the room also. That's a waste IMO.

 

[Jesusbuiltmygro]

Can filters are cool, but for high CFM requirements the DIY will almost certainly be better and far far cheaper.

Can's are great for small rooms at the small size models, but beyond that the pricing is pretty steep.

The DIY Sun is Shining works great for me, but the key is WELL packed carbon. The only real difference in the CAN filters are they vibrate them as they fill them up with carbon and that packs in a lot more. You can more or less do this at home it's just not as fast and easy as their automated method.

I'd start with figuring out if the problem is that you need more CFM or that your carbon filter isn't cleaning the air well enough. Seems to me you should have enough fan power though I don't know the size of those fans. You could also buy some cheap plastic and plastic off the room if you fear it's draftyness, but normally this isn't a problem, in fact it could be an advantage.

Does the room have an intake ? Are you sure you haven't create too much negative pressure in the room by not having in intake. If the room has a door on it or a window can you feel the fans sucking air through the cracks or pulling the door shut ?

I'm leaning more to the .. it's a problem with your carbon filter. Maybe you didn't pack the carbon in well enough or use some shitty carbon. Carbon is cheap on ebay though I yet to buy the bulk order so I can't attest for it's quality.

Uh.. the reason you would size a carbon filter to the light system is that the light system fuels the things that stink SOO the simple equation is more light = more stink = more filtering needed. If you have a pretty low wattage system you don't need the same filter that some guy running 3000 watts will need. So yes you can guestimate filter needs on light size and usually people tell you more about their light than their rooms dimensions so it's easier. Just as it's easier to calculate yield by grams per watt even though it's a flawed guestimate. The less info needed for the equation many times the more accurate it becomes in real life use though of course the less accurate it becomes on an engineering level. However, we aren't building bridges here. Honestly you shouldn't even have to calculate your room dimension or CFM. You always want overkill on ventillation so you pretty much just need as much fan power as you can effectively run and budget in until your sure the room has good negative pressure. MOST of the time this doesn't require math but just common sense like... gee can I feel a draft. Is the draft weak or strong. Math unlike observed results can fail you because its theoretical. Calculating a rooms ventilation needs is one thing, but actually getting the results of your calculations will be another thing.

IF your carbon is packed tight enough I doubt air will pass through that massive filter you have faster then it gets filtered. If you didn't pack the carbon, thats the problem right there.

What kind of fans are those ? I think you could get much better results just ensuring the carbon was packed and using a larger 6 inch fan. The Vortex inline 6 inch fans are like the standard in cooling as far as I'm concerned. Unless your running smaller lights you need 6 inch or greater fans. The reduction in duct size takes a massive toll on the overall volume of air moved, so basically, never reduce.

Going into the cold air returns is great usually because it helps spread the heat and smell out throughout the house.

I also think you need to ditch the Y because unless it has some check valvue mechanism I'd be affraid the fans are fighting themselves for air to some degree.

You have a massive room there. So for the sake of ease and effeciency I think I'd go up to 8 inch Vortex. The 8 inch looks like the best deal also for total sucking power vs cost. The best suck for you dollar.

Either that or plastic off a grow area so you don't have to vent so much wasted space. You could for instance plastic off the entire ceiling and reduce all that waste and hard to vent space. With the ceiling joists exposed like that air is trapped inbetween the wood. Venting over surfaces like that is ineffecient because the gas is dynamic and the wood acts as series of baffels almost like one of those man made water breaks.. a series of baffels. So it's entirely the opposite of what you want which is a smooth surface. Those flex ducts have the same problem, but ultimately the real problem is having two small fans instead of one big one and perhaps not packing the carbon or not using the right carbon. You want the most broken up kind you can get.. never use carbon pellets.. they have to be granules. Also humdity must not be too high or carbon filters become less effective, but I doubt that is your problem.

Since you have the system hooked to the cold air return you could set your HVAC to FAN ON instead of AUTO and it will boost your rooms ventilation power considerable. In fact a 6 inch duct to the carbon filter and the HVAC always on might actually work better than your dual centrifugal fan setup. However you can't run like that all the time as it wastes a lot of electricity. You could just use it to trouble shoot.

If you run FAN ON and it's still stinky then I'd say that increases the chances the carbon filter is the weak point because you've increased ventilation and still nothing. However don't underestimate the importance of not reducing duct size. You get more ventilation for your money with larger ducts. Using non flex duct for straight runs will also help. I have a much smaller but finished room and I get negative pressure and little odor with a DIY Sun is Shining scrubber and a 6 inch Vortex 449. AND, my venting run is so shitty looking it's a joke like a big S cause I don't feel like re-hanging it. Yet no problems. I run into my cold air return also, but into a finished cold air return with the grate and all. I didn't even take the filter out just duct taped the vent end to the cold air return grate with probably some ancient filter left in it.

Sounds like your grow shop just wants to sell you crap For a dust filter I use panty hose before the Cool Tube or even better those free foot panty hose things they give away in the womans shoe sections of departments stores. Just grap a handful they are great for using a guano tea bags (if your into that kind of stuff). ha Just make sure it's taped on real well if you do that cuz you can't have it sucked into the HPS lamp or you'll be venting smoke into your cold air return , probably not for long, but certainly not a good thing.



Anyway sounds ineffective, but you'd be surprised. I imemdiately noticed my glass stayed much cleaner and after harvest I could see it had built up what looked basically like a layer of lint.

If your room is so unsealed you should really go the route of sealing it with plastic because spider mites and such are perhaps some of the biggest pain in the asses for being so small that you can have in a otherwise nicely going grow. Plastic is very cheap in large rolls from home improvement stores or such. It might also help seal in some of your odor, but the failing point is probably loosely packed or pellet carbon.

Any idea how many pounds of carbon you put in your filter ? If you went with an 8 inch fan you would just make a 8 inch scrubber ideally. Sadly getting a can will also fix your problem, but not because can filters are some superior product. The only thing they really have going for them is they factory packed carbon. Other than that I gurantee they get less CFM because they are like wrapped in cotton or some shit that obviously resits airflow more than pantyhose.

Chances are that filter you have now is more than enough for you room and lights though you don't say you lights. I assumed from the pic that you are growing only a small part of this larger room. Therefore the filter need not have the extra carbon power. If you used that entire room you would probably want a large 8-12 inch carbon filter and certainly a bulk shipment of carbon.

Obviously 20 plants under 2000 watts require more filtering than 1 plant under 400 watts. So it's not just about CFM it's about many factors much of which is your strains odor level. You might have a very high odor strain also which makes it considerably harder to get zero odor. Hard to say on that one especially with the unpredictableness of phenotypes. If she stinks good though it's probably a pretty good pheno I think the more intense lights tend to produce stinkier plants personally. THC is a mechanism for moisture and heat control and the theory is that you can force it to produce more resin and probably also more scent with intense light. So you'll probably see stinkier plants with larger lights also beside just the fact they there is more plant it should stink a tad bit more also if it's under more intense lighting.

In my experience it's like 80% genetics though. Some strains can just stink like crazy and others require minimal odor control. Obviously though in large grows you'll still need a large carbon filter regardless of genetics especially since they are somewhat random.

 

[Guest]

i would put some fiberglass insulation in the ceiling in between the beams as well. ill bet my life that smells permeates through the ceiling into the rooms above.

 

[Guest]

i would put some fiberglass insulation in the ceiling in between the beams as well. ill bet my life that smells permeates through the ceiling into the rooms above.

Maybe there are leaks in the floor but fiberglass won't seal that...better to staple up some cheap plastic and seal the staples and edges (especially if a sealed (CO2) space if that's the case...but better yet is good negative pressure.

As for Jesusbultimygrow...I thought I wrote a book...lol. I do agree that putting 2 fans on a Y like that can limit effectiveness though.

Bottom line...for me...is there are no steadfast equations for sizing equipment. Just general rules of thumb then taking into consideration each rooms idiosynchracies. Air evacuation in the grow space itself approximately every 2 minutes has served me well as a start. Then you've got to consider duct length, duct kinks and bends, incoming air temp (seasonal), using air cooled hoods or not, passive intake size, active intake air flow, plant canopy area (count means shit), blah, blah, blah.

Off the shelf filters are great as you know exactly what the cfm rating is but you can build something cheaper. Disposal of can type filters is a pain so I recommend refillable units or easily disposable units like and Odor Sok.

The more details you can provide the better...seems like Jesus has you covered so good luck!

 

[macster]

Holy Crap guys tks for all the info

I'll give a few more details
First I've 2 1000watt lights

Plastic was up on all walls and ceilings but due to a house appraisal it all had to come down and FAST. I've plans to rehang it.
The Y in the venting does have a contraption which doesn't allow blow back through the other way
I forget the precise size of the fans but the larger is about 350 cfms and the smaller is 210ish.
The carbon in the filter is pellet and no,it wasn't been compacted.
And finally heres my grow as of about 3 weeks ago. I'm currently harvesting.