i keep feeding they keep yellowing

[inreplyavalon]

Please help my girls. I am growing Power Plant and Shark Shock. There has been increased yellowing and i am in turn increasing my dosages. I increased the calmag in an effort to increase nitrogen and keep calcium and magnesium levels even. I noticed only red stems. Then i increased grow the next day and don't see much change. I have not seen any burned tips, but one plant has its very tips curled dramatically.
COCO
18/6
fed 3x day 20-30% runoff
R/O water
Botanicare PBP, Calmag, Liquid Karma
PPM from 1000 bumped up to 1400 two days ago.
PH 6.0
temp 60 night 75 day
Transplanted from 1/4 g to 2 gal. about 7 days ago. Switched to 400 MH same day as transplant.

The plants sprouted on Nov. 12th
I continue to increase the dose but they continue to yellow. Any ideas why?

 

[mexilandrace]

maybe I am blind but I don't see any yellowing?

It would start at the bottom and work up if it was a nitrogen problem, looking at them they look like they might be showing signs of over ferting

 

[inreplyavalon]

Mexi thanks for taking a look. Your signature is right on point. Beautiful words. They are definitely more yellow on the top and the new growth. I know new growth comes in a bit yellow, but this is almost whitishly yellow. Also extra variegated. The third picture shows it the best, but none of them really do it justice.
Wouldn't they be showing burnt tips as one of the first signs?
Also i think the reddish stems appeared from the extra calmag i gave them.

ps

 

[mexilandrace]

nah, I see leaf curl long before I get burnt tips.

I don't do the hydro thing, or coco or whatever you wanna call it, but that 1000 ppm number feels high to me, and certainly the 1400 number is high for plants that size.

I am cautious to tell you what to do since again I only know coco from what I read on here, but I would water with plain ph'd water for a little while and see if it helps.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with more coco knowledge than I have.

 

[green_grow]

i don't see any yellowing either; just a bit of drooping in the last pic, but nothing too serious. when a plant is underfed it starts yellowing on the old growth first. i see you are watering/feeding 3 times a day. i am a soil grower who knows squat about coco, but i am wondering whether that might be too frequent ? i'm sure a coco grower will chime in with correct info.

 

[HeadyPete]

1. What exactly have you been increasing in dose?

2. How much cal mag are you adding?

You may be getting a mag deficiency from the coco. Magnesium is a big part of why plants are green and yellowing overall is an early sign of mag def. Coco will bind up cal and mag while releasing potassium and sodium until it can't absorb any more, then it begins feeding it back. Because you are using RO, you are probably not adding enough cal mag to fill the coco's buffer. I use tap water with coco and still need to add calmag (5ml/4L) for most of the cycle, until about 6 weeks into 12/12. If you increase calmag, decrease grow nutes accordingly, as cal mag is a 2-0-0 nitrogen fert, as well.

You especially need to increase the dose when transplanting into fresh coco, as it will begin again capturing cal and mag, thus depriving the plant (until it is full), and releasing sodium and potassium. Sodium is no good for plants. You should flush out new coco with cal mag and water ph'd to 5.8 to help that process along. Adjust ph at end for water and/or nute solution and aim for 5.8.

Anyway after all that I don't see an issue in the photos either, other than what may be minor leaf edge curl, another possible early sign of mag def, so the above info is general info only. If you have a recent photo of the problem, please post it.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Mexi,
I think you are correct. I over-ferted because i thought they were short on Nitro when they obviously weren't. If i new of the simple "yellows from the bottom" fact i may have looked into other things. Still learning.

GreenGrow i am seeing more leaf curl every hour. Thanks for sharing.

HeadyPete,

1. I increased the dose of calmag because i wanted to add Nitrogen and it is 2-0-0. I also know that plants in COCO and R/O need a lot of Calmag. Then i ended up giving more grow(about 5-7ml more grow), because i did not see an improvement. So I think i ended up misdiagnosing and then over feeding? Ya'll have helped me come to this conclusion.
2. I started feeding up to 300ppms of calmag. I then increased to about 7.5-10+ ml/gal.
That makes a lot of sense about the fresh coco needing more calmag, because the yellowing on the new growth was happening after transplanting. That seems like an important fact for coco growers, thanks for sharing it.

The last move i made was to drop the ppms to 1150 and water heavy.
Maybe i should have flushed with a lighter flow? Is the leaf curl you speak of caused by early mag def, visible as the edges curling up? Sort of like heat stress looking?
I see you like floyd. Me too. Their music and lyrics strike deep. I am not a huge fan of Primus, but they do a great bass heavy 'Have a Cigar'. Check it.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Well I did some studying up on Mag. deficiency and definitely was experiencing it in the garden. Now that i know what it is, it sure is easy to spot...DOH!

But as i have spelled out above, i misdiagnosed and then overfed grow nutrients. I am surprised that i could feed them 10 ml. a gallon of calmag and still get a mag def. But as Headypete mentioned they were in fresh coco which I guess means they need even extra. NOt sure what i will do now. Waiting for the lights to switch so i can assess the situation. Thanks all kind growers for teaching me ANOTHER lesson.

 

[mexilandrace]

If my plants looked like that I would flush, but I don't know how coco holds on to nutes.

 

[stinkyattic]

Your night temperatures are too low for the amount of water and nitrogen you are giving them. Don't drop below 65, 68 if you can help it. If the pots are on the cold ground, get them UP off the floor.
Looks like overwatering in the cold to me. I've been seeing overwater/over-N/low temp combo problems all over the place since the cold weather started. Something to think about.

EDIT: If you have an indoor-outdoor thermometer with a corded remote probe, bury the probe in your soil or stuff it up into a drain hole (preferable and more accurate) and monitor the temp fluctuations and hi-lo marks over a couple days.

 

[DocLeaf]

they are NOT yellow...!!!

stop feeding for a while..,, wait till they pick up and resume feeding..

they look too wet!! stop watering/feeding them for a few days!! they are weeds not tomatoes!!!

hope this helps

 

[inreplyavalon]

Thanks folks for chiming in. It is appreciated. Certainly some varying opinions on the matter.

Landrace i am leaning towards flush but was hoping for more of a consensus.

Her Dankness, i never would have guessed that the low temp combined with the feeding schedule would cause this. I like the trick with the thermometer up the drain, and will be trying that. The plants are on tables. Do you think a flush is in order? I am seeing more tips curled down than overall droopiness. It is only one or two that have a full on droop.

Dr, thanks for the headsup, i have been been mixing them in with pasta and putting them on sandwiches and the food has not been all that tasty.

 

[HeadyPete]

Coco can be watered everyday, even more. It is an excellent hydro medium with perfect air/water retention ratio. The only way there would be an overwater situation is if the coco is too fine and clumps together, or there wasn't proper drainage from the pots. To me, those plants look overferted with nitrogen, dark green and curling/clawing down. Mag def does show edges curled up, like heat stress, as you say. I don't see any mag def in your pix.

I would agree and say lay off the feeding for a while, and see how they respond. Keep with the cal mag when you feed.

Lotsa of potential problems with cold temps now. Leaves yellow and get spotty kinda like cal def, wither up and die. This happens on my lower veg shelf (right over the cool air intake) so I put those plants on a large heat mat. Works great.

Can I have some of that pasta?

 

[mexilandrace]

/\/\/\ you just inadvertently mentioned something happening with my plants I couldn't figure out. now where the hell did I hide my heating pad...

I would hit you with rep but my proxy doesn't let me, sorry man.

 

[HeadyPete]

I got your K man :smile: thanks.