I have an Air Cooled 600w HPS in a 4x4x6 Tent. Need some advice!

[ChronMedic]

Hey everybody. First post, I think, so I'm just going to post my thoughts so far. I'm curious for any advice, suggestions, clarification, etc, that might make this a success... I haven't quite started this yet, still gathering the components actually. But for my first go round, I'm focusing on a single chamber, from seedling to harvest. This is a personal grow. My goal would be up to 3 harvests per year, preferably one. I would hope for a yield of at LEAST a half pound per harvest (aiming for WAYY more since I have 16 sq ft). Plus, I honestly don't want a 4x4x6 tent in my guest bedroom 365 days a year. Perpetual grow would be nice, but I can't see myself having an additional mother chamber right now. At this time, I'm going to Germinate a package of about 10 seeds, root in rockwool (unless I think of better idea) and transplant to soil in 1 gallon smart pots, Veg in 3 gallon, maybe Flower in 5 gallon, and harvest. I can only assume 50% will be female, so I'm not sure what 5, 3-5 gallon plants will produce, but I'm hoping to find out.

Anyway, I have this plan in my head and on paper but there comes a point where you HAVE to ask questions, so I'm going to explain what I'm thinking (very much in the learning/planning stages) and just let me know where I'm off base and/or make things simpler for me.

No pics of the tent yet, but here is a drawing of the big picture.

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The tent is a Secret Jardin DR120, it's 48" x 48" x 80". I am using a 600w Quantum Digital ballast to power a Digilux DX600 HPS bulb, housed in the Sunlight Supply Blockbuster 6" air cooled hood (bought it about 2 years ago, maybe 1st or 2nd gen).

My intake will be a 6" x 8" Phresh Intake Filter mounted to a Hyperfan w/speed controller, outside of my tent. I'll split the ducting using a split wye branch into two separate 6" intake tubes. One will go in thru the hood - this will exhaust out the port located on top of the tent and plug into the 45° intake port of the 45° wye branch - and the other will blow filtered air into the grow chamber.

For exhaust, I have the 6" x 16" Phresh filter mounted inside the tent, at the top. This is ducted out the side, and up to the top of the tent where I have the 6" Vortex and Phresh Silencer combo sitting. Atop the tent, the fan blows through the silencer, through the straight section of the 45° wye branch (drawing the hood exhausted air coming out the 45° angle with it), and everything blows up into the attic via duct collar.

As far as strain, I have some Afghani seeds. I was planning on using General Hydroponics Flora Series for nutes. Since it's my first grow, I'm just honestly going to stick with something basic like this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Granted everything sounds so far so good, my only unknown concern would be related to the day/night transition of temperature and humidity. Anything I can do to ease that temperature variance, let me know. I read about these humidity/temp controllers but they are on/off as far as I can tell, and they would turn off my ventilation? I'm just not comprehending how that would work in my setup. That's part of the beginning frustration, I realize until I get the plants in, lights on, fans blowing, watering/fert, etc., that everything is a guess, but does everything at least sound balanced to you veterans?? I was planning on running the 400 cfm exhaust filter constantly (dialed back w/fan controller). I was going to run the intake filter constantly, this fan will be approx 270 CFM. Does that sound like too much air circulating, overly drying everything?
Also related to ventilation, my RH based on my home thermostat stays around 45% in the house, if I can keep temps in the mid 70s - both in and out of tent - I shouldn't really need a dehumidifier or humidifier controller and all that crap right?

I appreciate anyone who reads/provides feedback! Sorry for the long post but I had to get that info out there. Hope this makes sense bc I've been typing for way over an hour!

 

[Waterlab420]

Hey there, I'm not an expert but. You sound like you have it dialed in.

You shouldn't have a need for a de humidifier. In fact you could even humidify it a bit for veg stage. But that sounds perfect for flower.

Are you gonna be running all 10 under the 600w? Why not run less and have bigger plants. Scrog them, train them.

You could run 10 in 3 gallon pots and easily get 8oz harvest.

With my fan set up I have a 435cfm fan pulling the air out of the light hood instead of pushing it through. And I keep one end of the hood open with clip fan blowing into it. And I have a seperate intake fan. Not sure if that's how your tent is set up but.

 

[dragunn]

have just a filter/fan in your tent.then duct it to cool your hood and out the ceiling.

id upgrade to a 1000 dial a watt.can go down to 600 if its too hot,8 inch hood and the new vortex silent 8 inch fan.

don't need for the extra fan or filter or ducting.cut your noise in half.save money.

if you mount a 2x8 across the ceiling,above the grow tent you can support the weight of the filter and fan in the tent from hanging ropes.you will have to put around 8 small holes in your tent roof.
then seal with silicone.

every cubic foot of space saved is valuble.

 

[dragunn]

id pop 25 the seeds in small 3x3 sq.pots.turn the light down to 12/12 when there 10 inches tall.sex them in 10 days.kill the males,top the females.go back to 24/7.trasplant to 3 gallons.dont waste time growing out males.harvest twice as much.be nice if you hand a separate box with 2 foot,2 bulb t5s.small fan.to sex them ahead of time.

afganis are tough plants.can handle higher temps.

 

[Snow Crash]

Your ventilation diagram is kind of interesting. I don't think you'll need to go that route, with the two fans and all the wye joints.

Most gardeners employ passive intakes. Use a larger intake filter if necessary, but the vacuum created by the exhaust fan will draw in fresh air constantly.

The traditional ventilation setup goes:
Filter -> Hood -> Exhaust fan ->Exhaust point

The filter is mounted in the tent "behind" the air cooled reflector. The exhaust fan is placed "after" the hood. This pulls hot air from inside the grow space through the filter to cool the reflector and exhaust all the heat in one swoop. Fresh air is brought in as the hot air is exhausted, creating a negative pressure zone in the tent which prevents stinky air from making it out without being filtered.

Duct silencers can be placed before or after the fan and work equally well on either side. I use silencers before and after my Vortex fan. My air circulation fans are actually louder than my exhaust now. Insulated ducting helps a lot with the noise and is necessary for longer runs (over 10 feet) to keep the heat from radiating through the duct work and back into the grow space.

Plan on how you will deal with your runoff. At some point you will have to drain through those containers. While it cost me a couple dollars up front having a flood/drain tray is a life saver. I would spend hours managing my runoff over the course of a grow. Now I spend just a few minutes. My time has value, and after 4 or 5 grows with this tray it has paid for itself 10x over. The Botanicare 4x4 Outside Dimension (OD) trays are perfect for the DR-120. You might still need to hacksaw a notch here or there to get it snug with the poles, I did for my DR-90.

Start with soil. Any bagged mix is fine. Fox Farms Ocean Forest is still the industry standard, but VermiSoil is good, so is Roots Organics. I suggest General Hydroponics Rapid Rooters as plugs for starting your seeds in for a high germination rate of your seeds. Plant size will determine how many you will need for the grow, but I think for a beginner with a few weeks of vegetative size, flowering in 5 gallon containers, that 4 plants will be adequate. Smart Pots all the way if you can. I'd start in the Rapid Rooters, go from a 1 gallon smart pot maybe 2/3 full to a full 2 gallon, then from the 2 to the 5 gallon. I would veg for 10-12 days in the 5 gallon to get the roots situated then flip to flower.

From 600w you'll be looking at a minimum of 300 grams assuming you don't totally botch it. 1lbs (454g) per 600w lamp isn't usually much of an issue, but you'd need to hit about 115g (4 ounces) per plant and they would need to be pretty stacked. 2 to 3 ounces per plant shouldn't be too tough though and that's where your harvest will wind up. You could slap 9 plants in there and reduce your veg times, then hope to hit more like 1-2 ounces per with much smaller plants and a quicker schedule.

Afghani plants aren't always the most potent but they are stocky and easy to grow. Good choice there.

 

[ChronMedic]

Thanks for the responses so far people. I came across a SolisTek Matrix 1k watt digital ballast online, got a sweet deal. I'm not sure what brands are "the best" these days but I've heard good things. Bad too but what can you do when online shopping for electronic devices that were mass produced overseas. ~ Def going to dial it back to 600w during flower and only get up to 1k if I can effectively keep it cool.

Grow
@Snow Crash, I didn't mention I have some 2ft Sunblaze T5s. I've heard good things about Rapid Rooters too. Should I put the rapid rooters in a humidity dome under the T5s the first 2/3 weeks or so? And at what point is it no longer stressful for seedlings to be put under a 600w? only once the vegetative process shows @ 2-3 weeks?

Going with Smart Pot containers for many reasons. Was gonna grab some deep plant saucers for the runoff. I conceded the first couple grows will probably demand a lot of extra time anyway but I'm all about efficiency. I checked out the 4x4 Botanicare trays and it looks like part of a hydroponic ebb & flow system, are you plants set up on a type of drip? Would that have drain to waste applications? Honestly, I have zero experience working with soil and adding nutrients, so the more you oblige going into the feeding details like FF Ocean Forest, when to feed/water, etc., the better. Not quite that hopeless, but helps my brain digest the the process when I get the checkpoints.

Ventilation again..
About all the ducting.. and the wye branches.. You can see where I created a monster trying to micromanage fantastical issues. I had originally decided to go the widely used route you mentioned; Filter > Hood > out to Fan > Silencer. That was the plan for a long time until I starting reading about inverse square law and how important it is to keep that lamp cool so the lights can be closer to the plants. So I thought, I can utilize the side port and cool the hood separately. Which would entail getting another fan. I didn't want it in the tent or hanging out the side port and I wanted it quiet. I could muffle it with an intake filter/silencer combo, have clean air through my hood - prolonging my bulb health, and have clean no worry air come into the grow chamber. So I don't think the drawing is a terrible idea, it just wasn't drawn by someone with a realistic knowledge of a functional growing climate, ha ha. Anyway, that's where my thought process was with the Intake Filter/Hyperfan part of that.

True test will be Very soon, when I get the light/fan/filter. I'm going to test temps with the Filter > Hood > Fan/Silencer combo first. I have NO idea what to expect as far as temps until I turn it all on but I'll aim for that and a simple passive intake. Should be ok... but..

Climate
That leads me to something else I'm not comphrehending.. While researching this ideal climate, I was looking at some temperature controllers, the Zephyr 1 from Titan Controls specifically. I emailed them basically asking wth is it and was told: "The Zephyr 1 is designed to keep your Temperature within 4 degrees of your desired temperature range. If your desired temp is 75, the fan should turn off by the time it his 71 degrees and turn back on once the temp hits 79 degrees. We suggest not having constant ventilation in your room. If you have constant ventilation during day light hours, you are going to be constantly pumping out any CO2 that you are producing for your plants."

That took me off guard bc everywhere I've read says to keep exhaust running. I assumed this device, with the lights off, would, at minimum, exhaust at a low rate constantly. But when the light clicks on, it would slowly increase exhaust speed based on temperature goals. Do you guys leave your exhaust on 24/7? Am I confusing ventilation (inside fans-always on) and exhaust (inline fan-on timer)? Only when the lights are on? For an additional hour after lights go off? Every 15 minutes? Should I be worried about this shit?


I've been reading a lot so it's great to get feedback. Don't feel obligated to answer every single question but your feedback goes a long way. Feel free to walk me through your process, as it relates to what I may be going for.

Oh ya, any other good suggestions for strains that a beginner could handle? Really want something potent, stocky, and sappy

 

[ChronMedic]

Also,
I can't seem to edit my posts yet so just going to tack this on my prior statement. Prefer to start with a high yielding, couch locking, fruity/smooth tasting Indica in the beginning. Any other basic suggestions? Thinking something with high resin production...
I re-drew another shameful version with Passive Intake below. If I go this route, I prefer to keep everything contained. The Phresh filter would be mounted near the ceiling, front to back, a few inches from the perimeter. During flowering, the silencer may get in the way if I have the light all the way up but I can probably just swing it towards the back and angle it out of the way, if need be. Otherwise, going back to the original question up above.. Should I incorporate any kind of temperature controllers and/or timers to the fan or let it run 24/7? More importantly, what exactly happens to the climate (temp/humidity) and what do I need to pay attention to during the day/night transition?

 

[Scrappy-doo]

If you have a co2 generator or tanks, it would be couterproductive to exhaust 24/7. His comment was for co2 you are 'producing'. If you're not producing any then you want to keep the air circulating constantly, bringing in fresh air with natural co2.

I recycle air 24/7 but I exhaust back into the living area especially in the winter. This way the room helps heat the rest of the living area, during lights on, and vise versa during lights off. If that's an option you might consider it and save some heating costs rather than drawing heat from the rest of your house/apartment to heat your attic. Unless you cycle the air from your attic back to your living area?

Edit: Also, how many cfm is that phresh filter? 6x16 doesn't sound like it's gonna have a very high cfm rating. If you have real stinky strains that can come into play. I usually go a size or 2 bigger than my fan to put less strain on the motor and to ensure clean air.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

For a strain, first thing that comes to mind is gorilla grape from outlaw genetics. Should fit all your criteria.

 

[ChronMedic]

Ahh, duh. I didn't read between the lines of his statement. Do they make controllers that dim the fan during night and raise the rpm during the day? Or does the temperature not really change drastically enough to worry about it? It's usually warm where I live but I haven't written off exhausting back into an adjoining room.
As far as the filter, website says the 6x16 is rated to a 400 cfm. I already had the Vortex (452 cfm) and figured I could use a speed controller if it's too much. Thanks for the info and the suggestion. Maybe a classic NL#5?

 

[RonSmooth]

A 600w tent grow shouldn't require controllers for temps unless you have it outside. As long as the space where tent is set up is comfortable, temps shouldn't fluctuate much.

The exhaust setup will draw fresh room temp air in constantly while exhausting heat picked up from the bulb. Continuous exchange is also why CO2 would be unnecessary and ineffective.

A speed controller for exhaust fan is a must IMO. The faster you draw air through the filter, the less effective the filter is at removing odor. A controller allows you to find the sweet spot. They also can turn down the volume of the fan motor/blowing air which by itself, is never a bad thing.

 

[ChronMedic]

As long as the space where tent is set up is comfortable, temps shouldn't fluctuate much.

That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking the humidity of the day/night cycle would be chaotic once the hot lights cool down; but since the chamber is already situated in a comfortable climate and the air exchange has such a quick turnover, I see it won't likely be an issue. That answers a major hypothetical concern I had.

The 452 CFM fan and the variable speed controller should be perfect for my space - actually going to probably have to dial it back a bit.

 

[ChronMedic]

Since passive intakes seem to be the general consensus.. and the flower room requiring complete darkness.. are the 8x11 mesh screens on either side of this tent enough to keep the light out during the flower period if it's in a high traffic area near windows? I suppose I could prop the vents open using some sort of Velcro lean-to, if it made me feel better..

 

[Scrappy-doo]

I had a 6x24 phat filter and a 400 cfm fan that were 'compatible'. All the way up till halfway thru flower I was fine then the filter just wasn't cutting it anymore so I upgraded to a 750 cfm 8" filter and the smell went away. I have some real stinky strains tho so if you are going with a NL5 or something you might be ok. Personally I always go oversized. Cost is a little more up front but your filter will last longer so it balances out.

If you use that combo you're planning on and dial it down the filter may work well, but if you're running a 1k hps you may not be able to get away with lower cfms and .also keep your temps in control. A 1k will put out a lot more heat than a 600.

That Titan controller will keep the fan running constantly but will change the speed based on temperature, and you can set it for a day temp and a night temp. That would be ideal if you want to keep temps in check. I'm planning to get one myself.

 

[ChronMedic]

I have some real stinky strains tho so if you are going with a NL5 or something you might be ok. Personally I always go oversized. Cost is a little more up front but your filter will last longer so it balances out.

I hear ya. Nothing says system more than something that lasts longer than barely putting that shit together, ha ha. I am purely about the low, slow, and woa Indicas, so I will see if the 6x16 will scrub enough. No space concerns about upgrading.

Do not tempt me to bump this thing up to 1k! At LEAST to check the heat differential. If I can get this lamp within a foot of my trellis-induced canopy, at 190k lumens, I'm going to push the genetics to their limits. Winning strains for me: Sensi: Northern Lights and G13xHP.

And if that's the case with these Titan controllers, I will def get one asap. I was waiting on some clarification but that answers it. Thanks Scoob

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Did you already order those seeds?

 

[ChronMedic]

Not yet

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Sensi has kinda a bad rap these days, at least around here. Word is they were great late 90's early 2k but then lost all their parental stock and it kinda sucks now. Don't have much personal experience other than MLI but I'd hate to see ya spend all that ching and be disappointed in the end. There's threads on here about it. Just a heads up.

 

[ChronMedic]

That sucks to hear! A quick search turned up a few disgruntled people. This stuff is $$$ so we should only expect the best, what the hell!?!

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Look at Bodhi's gear, he has a bunch of G13 hashplant crosses, and has NL5 also for like half that price, and he brings the fire. I'm sure there's plenty of journals here or elsewhere if you look.

I also heard Peak has a decent NL.