I am at a loss...Pls help--

[kmk420kali]

I work in a large grow...and I have been learning a lot-- But by far my weakest area is in diagnosing disorders...

These are probs with my personal plants, at home--

Ok...I have been giving them "Gro More" 30-10-10 mixed with 10-52-10 at onset of flower...now have started with just 10-52-10 to finish (The same as we do at work)
Last week the leaves started turning yellow, so I give them some 30-10-10...and then I noticed a lot of blotching...so last night I gave them some "Sweet", "Mag-Max", and 10-52-10 (1 1/2 tsp/gal)
Today they look worse--
Now I am confused, as I thought maybe I was over-ferting...so I used my handy-dandy soil tester (yes, one of the metal prong ones...) and it said I am in the "Low Fert" area--
I don't trust that thing enough to add anything more right now...so I was thinking of flushing...
Like I said....HELP!!!!

Oh yeah...half of them are in Sunshine Mix 1, the other half in a mix of Fox Farms Ocean and Happy Frog-- Ph is about 6.8

 

[HeadyPete]

I'm gonna say you are experiencing N def because those little pots dry out too quick.

 

[kmk420kali]

Really?? They are 10 gal pots--

 

[Blackvelvet]

What is in your 10-52-10? Be very specific about what is in it like type of nitrogen (ammonia, urea, or nitrate) and % of total and does it have all 6 micronutrients? Your adding more mag but you forgot calcium. Too much phosphorus is probably causing you problems.

 

[kmk420kali]

What is in your 10-52-10? Be very specific about what is in it like type of nitrogen (ammonia, urea, or nitrate) and % of total and does it have all 6 micronutrients? Your adding more mag but you forgot calcium. Too much phosphorus is probably causing you problems.

I don't have the pkg here, I don't know the ingredients--
My bad about the Mag-Max...it was "Cal-Max", it has cal, mag, and iron--
Yeah, that is where I got confused...I have added a lot of P...and my meter shows low nutes...so I am confused about whether to flush or add...

Thank you for your help...

 

[Core]

is your soils ph 6.8 or the nutrients going in? you need accurate ph of the soil...
Nway first off i would lower it to 6.4 average....and also i'd like 2 add that it does look like a iregular feeding problem...but as you stated that you added feedings 2 correct already...maybe its time thinking you are giving 2 much and you have salt build up ...that looks almost the same as N def...Nway i'm just venting here

maybe a good flush with a full feeding will do the trick...2 fly's in one hit, you flushed exessive salt out ...and you are feeding them in one hit....you will need plenty of runoff though...'when in doubt flush it out'

 

[kmk420kali]

'when in doubt flush it out'

Nice..thanks bro--

 

[Blackvelvet]

Map is crap

Map is crap

Map is crap. Monoammonium phosphate. All that phosphorus comes from somewhere. Your plants are on a mostly ammonia nitrogen diet = ammonia toxicity. See the complete guide to sick plants by mynamestitch stickied in the infirmary at the top for further explanation. Find ferts lower in p and higher in nitrate nitrogen rather than ammonia or urea.

Blackvelvets suggestion:
Put the plants on 1/2 tablespoon calcium nitrate (15.5-0-0) and potassium nitrate (13-0-44) per 5 gallon bucket of water every other feeding. (~130 ppm n) If 10-52-10 is 100% ammonia and cal.nitrate/pot. nitrate is 100% nitrate, you get an average of 50% ammonia your applying to the plant. You dont want more than this. Calcium nitrate you can find at good garden centers. Call around. Tomatoe growers use this to stop blossom end rot. Potassium nitrate you may also find there. Potassium nitrate is the ingredient in some stump removers to give nitrogen to microorganisms that decompose organic matter. Speeds it up. Spectricide, greenlight and grants are some brands you might find at lowes and home depot. If you find different, google the msds (material safety data sheet) to find the ingredients. Stump out brand is not potassium nitrate for example.

With the plan of alternating the 10-52-10 with the calcium nitrate/potassium nitrate, you should add 1 teaspoon epsom salts per gallon of water once monthly. )

This is still applying a ton of p to the plant even using 0 p every other watering. Try cutting the 10-52-10 to about 3/4 teaspoon per gallon.

Make sure your 10-52-10 has all 6 micronutrients. They are iron, manganese, zinc, copper, boron, and molybdenum.

Adjust the fert water to about ph 6 before applying since your soil is mostly peatmoss, bark, perlite, etc.. and not really soil. (Your ph is high even if you were in field soil.) The need to ph adjust is especially true for calcium nitrate and potassium nitrate because they will have a high ph and cause soil ph to rise. Apply the fert water till 20% runs out the bottom. You want alot of runoff!

If you need a ph down for your fert water, I suggest sulfuric acid. This adds sulfur you need. You can get a quart at the auto parts store. Add an ounce or so to a gallon jug. Then use this as your ph down. Wear sunglasses and gloves while handling the concentrate. Never add water to acid but instead acid to water. This prevents dangerous splatters.

Bonus tip: Your calcium nitrate/potassium nitrate fert water will lack boron. Boron requirements by the plant increase with increasing calcium applied. You can suppliment the water by adding .0099 grams of borax per gallon of water. (very, very little) You can find this in the grocery store laundry cleaning section. This will add .3 ppm boron. This roughly works out to be putting 1/4 teaspoon powder in 8 ounces (1 cup) of very hot water. Use the microwave if needed. Then add 1/2 teaspoon of this water for every 1 gallon of fert water. 1/4 teaspoon borax makes 96 gallons. Quite alot!

Edit: Is your fert by miracle grow? MSDS on their website states these ingredients...

COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Chemical Name CAS# OSHA PEL ACGIH TLV
Ammonium Phosphate 7722-76-1 None None
Potassium Phosphate 7778-77-0 None None
Boric Acid 10043-35-3 None None
Copper Sulfate 7758-98-7 None 1 mg (Cu)/m3
Iron EDTA 15708-41-5 None None
Manganese EDTA 15375-84-5 None None
Nuisance Dust 15 mg/m3 3 mg/m3

I put in bold map. Be extra sure to check for all 6 micronutrients on your label!!! You can see it didn't mention zinc and molybdenum. Just because its a micronutrient does not mean its micro important.

Core, adding a dash of distilled water to a tablespoon of soil and waiting 5 minutes is not proper soil testing technique. Please review current testing procedures. Thanks.

 

[kmk420kali]

Thank you very much BlackVelvet!!
I have been under these post limitations, and I used my last post yesterday....so I couldn't post anymore--
I just made my shopping list, and am off to the garden center--
So, do you think I should keep on with the 10-52-10, or should I get something different?? It is a product by "Grow More"...and what little I could find on it, it seems maybe I should be using something different--
Thanks again--

 

[MajLeeStoned]

How hot are those pots getting and is the surface the pots sit on cooking them? I had to plant in the ground to keep my pots from baking the plants.

 

[kmk420kali]

How hot are those pots getting and is the surface the pots sit on cooking them?

Oh shit!!! You just made me run outside and stick my hand down the dirt...IT IS ****ING HOT!!
It has been in excess of 105 here....I am an idiot...never even thought of it--
Do you think simply draping some shade-cloth over the pots themself would be sufficient?? Or should I shade them, plants and all??

 

[highallthetime]

In the bottom of the pot is where you really need to test them. Could show ph 3 or 4 there. But a nice 6 on top. Far as the leafs it looks more to be heat issue or nute burn. Backing soda is only a quick fix. Also wont last long at all. Some shell's placed way down in the bottom of the pot would help. Makes it PH too 7.0 no if's ands or buts.
Nice ladies btw. I can smell that from here. JK. later

 

[magoo420]

SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR OVER DOING IT AND HAVE NUTRIENT LOCKUP

 

[MajLeeStoned]

Its 100+ daily here too

Its 100+ daily here too

Glad I could help ID the problem kmk420kali. I had tried double potting in larger empty white pots to work as an insulator and also put down a platform, but alas I found the best solution to be the natural one. Ditch the black rubber mats. How hot is the ground? You got a shovel?

Oh shit!!! You just made me run outside and stick my hand down the dirt...IT IS ****ING HOT!!
It has been in excess of 105 here....I am an idiot...never even thought of it--
Do you think simply draping some shade-cloth over the pots themself would be sufficient?? Or should I shade them, plants and all??

OG Kush - Abusive Cut

 

[HuffAndPuff]

Ok, so I am of the opinion that this is almost certainly a case of over-fertilizing. It's always tough to tell from photos, but it looks as if the plant is most affected at its middle/lower portions. This is one indicator that there has been over-ferting.

The photo of the three leaves- Leaves are yellowed, with burned and/or curling tips and necrotic spots. These are all classic signs of over-fertilizing.

Here's the bitch....you're really going to want to give them a good flushing and with 10 gallon pots, you're looking at 50 gallons of water per container. 30 at the least. This is going to be a pain in the ass, but it's gotta be done.

RE: Temperature of bucket- Check the soil in the containers. When it gets hot, it will dry out faster, and the soil will contract, pulling away from the edges of the container. Not great for the roots. Neither are scorching temperatures. Soil/Root-temperature issues will result in diminished yields, an increased susceptibility to disease, and other related problems.

I posted a response to an outdoor grower recently, concerning black garbage cans and heat. Basically, it says I had a patch with black buckets and one with white buckets, and the cooler, white buckets yielded more. You could try double potting, or getting some white canvass and covering the pot like it is a christmas tree sash.

MajLee, Dude-excellent thinking with burying the containers...This is one of those things that you read, and you're like, "man, I can't BELIEVE the answer was so obvious, and I never thought of it!"

Good luck sorting it out, hope this helped.
Stay Safe,
HuffAndPuff

 

[kmk420kali]

Once again..thank everybody for helping...I appreciate and look forward to learning from/with you all --
I believe it is a problem with several things-- Over-fert, salt build-up...and heat stress (Plant and roots)
I have flushed the ever-lovin' shit outta them...and went to Home Depot...but was kinda lost, and couldn't explain my specific problem and needs...so I opted to hit the Hydro store in the morning-- At least there, I know I will get the right shit (For weed, that is--)
I think I want to get a more complete, and balanced fert...and going to cover my pots in white cloth-- (And get the 3 off the black mat...)
I have 4 here that I brought as clones, from work-- And the plants there...are budding much more than mine here...I think it is partly because I am simply not here during the week, so my wife waters, and that is what they get-- And mostly...because I brought them here...thinking I would get a bigger yield in full sunlight...but I think it was Too Much Of A Good Thing!! Not only with the sun...but with me trying to correct problems in 2 days.... I am loving my plants to death!!

Peace--Jim

 

[MajLeeStoned]

kmk420kali why not try planting one or two directly in the ground with no pots. The ground helps prevent and correct a lot of problems.

 

[kmk420kali]

I was thinking that too...but I live on a hilltop that is mostly fill-dirt...very very dry, rocky--
I will probably do this in the future...but it is kinda late in this one to do all I would need to do-- But I will have it very plant-friendly by next year--

 

[Blackvelvet]

The biggest problem with your 10-52-10 is lack of molybdenum and zinc. The yellow leaves may possibly be molybdenum deficiency. It will resemble nitrogen deficiency. Molybdenum is needed in nitrate reductase that changes nitrate nitrogen to a usable form by the plant. Without mo, the plant can't use the nitrogen. Discovered in 1926 by Sommer and Lipman to be essential, its needed in the least quantity of all nutrients.

You could use something like miracle grow 15-30-15 with all 6 micros (3/4 teaspoon per gallon) but you should alternate with calcium nitrate/potassium nitrate + once monthly boost of epsom salts. This would give you an average of 50% ammonia and 50% nitrate nitrogen the plant would be receiving. This hopefully avoids ammonia toxicity. Also using a high p fert and a 0 p fert avoids too much phosphorus. Remember unless p is deficient, increasing p will not increase bloom. Surprisingly plants need little p to grow or bloom.



.

 

[kmk420kali]

The biggest problem with your 10-52-10 is lack of molybdenum and zinc. The yellow leaves may possibly be molybdenum deficiency. It will resemble nitrogen deficiency. Molybdenum is needed in nitrate reductase that changes nitrate nitrogen to a usable form by the plant. Without mo, the plant can't use the nitrogen. Discovered in 1926 by Sommer and Lipman to be essential, its needed in the least quantity of all nutrients.

You could use something like miracle grow 15-30-15 with all 6 micros (3/4 teaspoon per gallon) but you should alternate with calcium nitrate/potassium nitrate + once monthly boost of epsom salts. This would give you an average of 50% ammonia and 50% nitrate nitrogen the plant would be receiving. This hopefully avoids ammonia toxicity. Also using a high p fert and a 0 p fert avoids too much phosphorus. Remember unless p is deficient, increasing p will not increase bloom. Surprisingly plants need little p to grow or bloom.



.

Thanx!! I tried to go to the hydro store today...but they are closed--
I plan on revising my whole nutrient regiment... I am already scared shitless at anything "Miracle Grow" (My friend ****ed his plant up with it last year...I won't touch it)....so I am just going to go to the higher-end nutes...suck it up, and pay the hydro store-- At least I might be able to get something more "Idiot Proof"...as I only get to see them (My Plants) 2 days a week-- I have been home all this week...but that is not usual--
I think next time I will go organic...

Peace--Jim