Hydroguard, yes or no?

[german_aero]

Hallo,

in this forum many user recommend for root healthy and to inhibit the brown algae to use no additives. Others again say using hydroguard is the best. So I don't know if I should use it.
Has anybody made negative experiences with hydroguard?

 

[00420]

i personly never used hydroguard, i have allways used just h202. but as we know in the slim algee thread h202 dont work nor dose hydroguard to rid the algee.....

 

[slater]

this winter is teh first time i havent had ANY fungus gnats and i also added the hydroguard and believe this is why i dont have gnats in my tomato plants

 

[Sauron The Blue]

Yes it works good, use it in combo with an enzyme that breaks down dead roots from DAY ONE, and you will be happy.

You cant pour a gallon of hydroguard, or any other product im aware of, into a bucket of shit and have it convert it to healthy white roots. Wont happen.

It kinda like leaving your car door open accidently in a parking lot.
You park in a shitty place it likely you will get robbed, you park in a clean safe place it likely you will be ok
You got good bacteria (parking lot security) they will cruise around every so often, they notice your door open the close and lock it for you.
If bad bacteria(thieves) happen to get into your secure area and see your door open they are gonna jack the car and get a few hookers and head to mexico, ruining your day, because they are opportunist pathogens, you let them do it.
If you had a enzyme (like a lojack) even if your come to the surprise that some pathogens got in and messed things up, you can still recover it before things head too far south..so to speak..

To make a long story even longer, use it on your babies from day one, use it on your medium before your plant. Use it on plants that are slightly struggling with a weakened root system.

-stb

 

[MynameStitch]

I will agree with sauron about that, hydroguard and many others that prevent it will only work for so long, if your conditions for growing rot are present no amount of additives will remove it. With hydro your additives get wore out faster with the bubbling and extra air disapting water and while the plants are removing it out of the water with nutrients and this is where people do not think.


h202 I have found to be more problematic than anything else, you use h202 in your mixture you are also killing the plants root defense system as well as the bacteria, so when the h202 gets overrun the problem comes back worse than before and quicker and deadlier.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

I will agree with sauron about that, hydroguard and many others that prevent it will only work for so long, if your conditions for growing rot are present no amount of additives will remove it. With hydro your additives get wore out faster with the bubbling and extra air disapting water and while the plants are removing it out of the water with nutrients and this is where people do not think.


h202 I have found to be more problematic than anything else, you use h202 in your mixture you are also killing the plants root defense system as well as the bacteria, so when the h202 gets overrun the problem comes back worse than before and quicker and deadlier.

h2o2 = DEAth to all...
it techniquely helps, but only for a second.

use the hydroguard and fix the conditions.

 

[german_aero]

I will agree with sauron about that, hydroguard and many others that prevent it will only work for so long, if your conditions for growing rot are present no amount of additives will remove it. With hydro your additives get wore out faster with the bubbling and extra air disapting water and while the plants are removing it out of the water with nutrients and this is where people do not think.

Sorry, I didn't undestand you. English is not my native-language, could you explain it in another way?

 

[german_aero]

h2o2 = DEAth to all...

In the brown slime algae sticky physan 20 is recorded as panacea. Compared to H2O2, does physan damage the plants more than H2O2?

 

[Sauron The Blue]

h202 I have found to be more problematic than anything else, you use h202 in your mixture you are also killing the plants root defense system as well as the bacteria, so when the h202 gets overrun the problem comes back worse than before and quicker and deadlier.

Im sure it can be problematic in heavy doses as most anything can, can you tell me how it kills the plants root defense system?

Ive had some really sorry cuttings that only had one visible bump on the stem and they were wilting, a foliar of h2o2 and some 3%in the root zone, it came back smiling in a few days.

If you use very low doses of low concentration h2o2, such as topical 3%, you will have excellent results on small clones. I gurantee that keeping the clones sterilized until they have an adequate root system to support bene's and fungus growth on the roots. Ive tried just about everything on the market, and i recommend as a foolproof way to correct clones using the 3% peroxide.

I was under the impression plants produce h2o2 themselves as a part of the photosynthesis process, im not to sure on the process myself, i will go see if i can locate any info and if I do I will come back and let ya know what I found.

Have a good one!
stb

 

[MynameStitch]

h202 is made to kill bacteria, while it kills the bacteria, it also kills the benaficail bacteria that surrounds the plants root system. When you remove this the roots are more prone to infections and rot.

I am talking about 3% I am not talking about anything higher, the higher the % the stronger solution of course.

I would only use h202 for alge growth, sterilizing equipment and dipping root zone in a different bucket if you got root rot, keeping it in the system is a huge mistake and I totally agree with DIGITAL, it only works for a little bit and reacts with the air around it and the bubbling and it's gone, so not only did it quickly kill bacteria and the root zones beneficial stuff, but left over bacteria that did not die now as access to an unlocked door.


German, is your native language deutsch?

Du sprist deutsch?

 

[Sauron The Blue]

Its better to have no bacteria than it is to have a bacteria battle fighting it out on the rhizosphere. This is why I recommend to run the clones in the low h2o2 solution until they have been sterilized, after that it is better to add bene's as they will be more efficient.

If I was going to make lemonade and dirty ass water came out the faucet, i wouldnt just add more lemon flavoring to hide the gross. id get new water and add a little lemon flavoring.

if I had mites and I had a way to kill all mites good and bad ones, I would use that before I used predator mites. Because even though predator mites kill mites, they might miss a few and im still in trouble. If i had a major infestation of bugs, i would sterilize the room then add the beneficial insects to try and hunt out any remaining ones.

better to start with a clean slate imo.
to each his own

-stb

 

[MynameStitch]

REad this thread...... I just posted some information about this, h202 can kill off roots in small plants and is not reccomended to use it, again: here read this post I did in another thread nearly on the same subject.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82237&page=1&pp=15


The term something is better than nothing is not true for all.
I just reposted the information I wrote in another thread, so just weed out the crap and only read the information I was trying to reefer you too, the other stuff in there was being aimed at another poster, not you

Thanks for the support upgrade! Really appreciate it, I found some stuff on the web, this is just one of many I found: I found proof what I said is correct!

Here is the link if you want to read it woody!
http://www.canadianwholesalehydroponics.com/faq.cfm?faqSection=4


# Q. If I have a pythium outbreak which is killing my root system can I use h202 to save them?


A. Using h202 in the reservoir will kill the pythium spores, but it may also damage healthy roots that are still remaining unless given the right dose. H202 will oxidize organic material in general, rather than only killing the pythium. Once the damage is gotten this far it's hard to control. When it comes to pythium the best method for control is prevention. If your crop is close to being done then the best thing to do would be to finish it off and after harvest sterilize everything! Try and keep on top of it this time. Keep reservoir temperature.

Another one portaining to inject was talking about!!!

Q. Should I use H2o2 on my seedlings in rock wool?

A. No it is not needed this young in the plants early stage. At this stage there will be hardly any organic matter for the h202 to attack therefore it will attack fragile little root hairs. Older root systems are stronger and more resistant to h202 damage unless extremely high doses occur.

So now woody, what were you saying? I have no clue what I am talking about? I think it's the other way around dude.


Some more info for ya!
http://www.blunt.co.uk/hydroponics-shop-uk/hydroponic-systems/aeroponic-pod-system/nft.htm


Most NFT growers administer H202 to their tanks but at a very dilute ratio, however this really needs to be done on a daily basis as dilute H2O2 breaks down very rapidly and over the course of 24 hours has completely dissolved its active ingredients. In using H2O2 in a daily capacity this prohibits the use of organic growth promoters and other products that reduce the possibility of bacterial break out like pythium.

Just like I said in my previous post, you would have to add it everyday and thus you are causing the plant to terminate it's defense against pathogens.
Again, does more harm than good. Ime, h202 should only be used in a separate bucket to dip roots that have root rot, to help kill off the bacteria, BUT when putting them back into there own buckets a pyrethin killer should be added like sm90, so h202 should only be used as a strong dipping solution to help kill off some of the root rot before putting it back in the system so the sm90 will have an easier time killing it off. Yes, h202 does kill, but it also kills the plants defense system and the h202 dipping should only be done in severe cases when the plants own defense has been overran.

 

[Sauron The Blue]

Hey thanks for posting all this for us stitch, i for one really appreciate it!

i think one thing that might be the problem here... I dont NEED all those little tiny root hairs.. Ive harvested many many dwc plants with fat gnarly white roots, not the furry pompom style im used to when I run bene's and enzyme or a myco fungus. There is another grower on here that runs his system totally sterile with 35%h2o2, from aerocloner cuttings with no roots till final flush, runs the same concentration the entire way. Another one STARTS his cuttings on a very high mixture of h2o2 and then backs it down as he goes on. Ill try to dig those up in a bit if possible.

Since the larger roots are better suited for water uptake, and the smaller root hairs are suited for transporting nutes to the main roots. The small hairs are fungus as you know, and they act as an extension of the root zone, you could really have one tiny white root and miles of strands of fungus and still have a happy plant. In fact there are many plants that cant have these small hairs, granted they have other systems to aquire nutrients, the cannabis plant along with many vegetables has a highly adaptive root system.

I read a series of books on composting and no irrigation farming, it was very interesting learning how plants root systems change shape and structure based on the watering schedule given to them. Some credit your way, the best tasting crops have been grown in situations with little to no water and a well balanced root system rather than a sterile hydro plant with water roots.

When I water my cuttings 4x a day they grow water roots so big and so fast they literally break out of the syrofoam cups. when i water them every other day, they grow a well developed balanced root system that makes the coco so dense it is like a solid rockwool plug when i transplant. There isnt a single hair on the latter that is bigger than 1/16th", while on the water root plant they are all 1/8-1/4" in diameter. Both of them perform just as well in veg and yield similar.

but all this aside, im not advocating running it full time, i would run it at the diluted ratio until the medium and the roots have been sterilized. Ive dipped plants with pyth in a small cup of 1:10 h2o2:water and they still transfered pyth to their new home. Currently with sad clones I run the h2o2 until i see some root formation, then switch back to my usual hydroguard/hygrozyme combo.

have a good one
-stb

 

[german_aero]

German, is your native language deutsch?

Du sprist deutsch?

Yes I speak native german.
Ja ich spreche deutsch.

 

[MynameStitch]

This is one of my posts I made, I put it in German, the one you did not understand.

Ich bin mit sauron über dieses, hydroguard und viele andere, die es verhindern, arbeiten nur für so lang, wenn Ihre Bedingungen für wachsende Fäule keine Menge Zusätze anwesend sind, entfernen sie. Mit Hydro, den Ihre Zusätze erhalten, trug heraus schnelleres mit disapting Wasser Sprudelns und der Extraluft und während die Betriebe es aus dem Wasser heraus mit Nährstoffen entfernen und dieser ist, wo Leute nicht denken.

 

[german_aero]

lol thank you, but this computer translation is less understandable than the english version

 

[MynameStitch]

lol

Well which part was the confusing part when I wrote to you in english so I won't have to write it in german as much lol