HPS vs Fluoros

[joaquin386]

Hi people,

I have an 400w HPS but the consumption of electricity plus the heat it disipates plus the lightning (blinding) it makes makes me think of another possible lighting methods.

Which system do you recommend for Flowering that: consumes less than those 400w, disipate less heat and is as efficient as the HPS.

Please post links to the light system here so I can check it out.

 

[Guest]

Choosing set-up equipment is very specific to the constraints of the space and so on. Is there no room for proper ventilation and intake of a 400 hps? What are the perameters you are working within?

The amount of light (in part) will dictate the amount of heat generated. Ventilation will determine the handleing of said created heat. 400 watts of compact floro's can get just as hot as a 400 watt hps with an ill equiped design scheme with flawed ventilation. It can also be set-up correctly. What you are working with will dictate the optimal set-up for your new build. It is about customizing to what you have to work with, along with your personal aspirations for the build.

By the sound of it, using the 400 hps something you wanted but maybe don't think it will work out? Correct me if assuming. If the fixture can be used to maximise its efficiency would that justify the usage in your opinion? Staying efficient for your space, light, and time is very important imo. Efficient is not the same for each grower, different stroke for different folk

If the 400 just will not work, figure out why. Is the space too small, ventilation issues?

Work with that information why the 400 will not work, and within your perameters find the next best fit. It may be a 250 hps, or some t-5's. Feed us more so we can give our input. Designs and set-up make me hungie.

 

[joaquin386]

Hi MSG

The thing is that I want to change my 400HPS to a more economical less heat disipation system than the HPS.

I dont have a fix room size and we can forget about an external ventilation system for now.

Just looking at one specific alternative system otehr than the 400HPS that I have at the moment, cause I want it to be with the same result (or close to it) but less consuming and heat propagation.

By economical I mean watt consiming and by heat I say a large set up where infrared camaras (ex police) can not scan them, and fluoros sound perfect, but which ones?
(Normally fluoros are less consuming and throw less heat through their lamps)

 

[prop215]

honestly, if your worried about 400w 12 hours a day, then I really doubt you will want to run floros.. You will need more ( double or triple the watts ) watts to get anywhere close to the results from a hid.And 200w of floro isnt going to flower worth a damn.. I have tried them all.. 400W-600W hids, 6 lamp HOT5,Cfls.. IMHO the best BANG FOR BUCK is a 600W hid.. Second is a 400W hid.. You will not get very good results with less than 400W of floro or T5.

 

[prop215]

I dont have a fix room size and we can forget about an external ventilation system for now.

plants need fresh air coming in and bad air going out.

Hi MSG
By economical I mean watt consiming and by heat I say a large set up where infrared camaras (ex police) can not scan them, and fluoros sound perfect, but which ones?
(Normally fluoros are less consuming and throw less heat through their lamps)

Its not going to happen. You are wanting something that isnt invented yet.. If you think you can get a set up that runs less than 400 watts that is considered a "large set up" then its not gonna happen...But maybe im misunderstanding you..

A 6 lamp HOT5 is about 400watts.. An 8 lamp HOT5 is about 500 watts. Maybe you need to forget the whole "Large Set Up" idea and just go with a couple 42W cfls. But TBH you will still need some type of ventillation and/or airflow.

All the lighting mentioned above will produce heat and will build up and get even hotter if not vented.

(Normally fluoros are less consuming and throw less heat through their lamps)

and a 40 watt light bulb takes less energy than a 100 watt light bulb.. You need to decide what you want more/less.. > Lumens/Watts/Heat/Yield. You are going to HAVE to make comprimises if you want less power consumption.

 

[magiccannabus]

Fluoros can do wonderful things, but they're not as efficient as an HPS. Even tube fluoros are inefficient comparatively. I'm combining HPS and fluoros though, because I love the qualities of both.

 

[joaquin386]

Ok just to know which equipment is better so basicly HPS for flowering and fluoros just for veg/clonning. I have already a T5 for the clonning and the veg and it goes great. Wanted to found out about the efficiency and your experiences.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Hi MSG

The thing is that I want to change my 400HPS to a more economical less heat disipation system than the HPS.

Do you have a Magnetic ballast? Check out CMH lamps from Philips There's a CMH thread here in the equipment forum as well.

You'll reduce your heat issues and you can spend that extra cash on more ventilation which will reduce your heat problems.

 

[Irie_Lion]

Does anyone have exprience with the led lamp supernova?? seems like if u had the $$$ and it lived up to the hype it would be well worth it.

 

[Guest]

Hydro-Soil's comment just kick started a part of my dormant brain. Have you researched electronic ballasts? They are far and few between where we are in Spain, but looking over some research leads me to believe they will be the most efficient in terms of transfer loss. Coupled with the reduced heat from new age ballast components and constant output to bulb (ie. no flickering), this may prove something to delve into for your situation.

jaoquin, your question about HPS and floros in reguard to veg and flower? The lighting spectrum or intensity does not dictate the vegetative or flowering, the lighting schedule does. Meaning the amount of daylight to night.

HPS is a type of HID lighting. Similarly there are floro lights which emit a similar "red" spectrum to hps. There are also "blue" floro lights that emit a spectrum similar to that of another type of HID lighting also know as MH.

As for what works best, that is a touchy subject. Knowing full well plants thrive under both MH and HPS lights in both flowering or veg, tinkering with the standard 12/12 for flowering would be the first place to improve flowering characteristics of different varietys imo. What works best in one environment with a specific strain, may not work in an alternate environment. Accessing the lineage of the strain in question and its natural prefferenes would provide invaluable in the long run. One could also figure not only the daylight to night hours of a specific native variety, but also the intensity of the sun and its spectrum possibly for the geographical region in question. If dealing with multi-hybrid bred indoors, then the indoor garden used would act as the geographical location.

prop you gave some incredible information, articulated much better than what was in my brain at the time. Great info prop!

My best advice is to think that everyone has a different opinion of what is efficient, as each are afforded different luxuries and constraints. IMO efficiency is maximizing output without sacrificing quality. Even within my own definition of efficient, everyone has a different opinion for what is quality or what is maximized output.

p.s. don't be scared about ventilation! It is good habit to properly plan and accurately pair space, lighting, and ventilation/air movement.

 

[Leviathan]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=67001&highlight=150watt+hps

60 grams from 72 watts of t-8 lights

theres maybe 3 percent of you 400 hid users coming in at around 350 grams harvest from your lights which is the equivalent of 400 watts of t8s beekaa style in a standard horizontal grow.

floros will match hid if dialed in and with less expense on exhaust fans and heat headeaches, the only place hids light win hands down is in vertical cirular set ups, horizontal its pretty much an even ball game.

 

[tejashidrow]

i hear ya Lev....
First id try to get a idea of the AREA of your grow...
I cut down a FINE summer run of venomhead flowered SCROG in a 17 inch by 25 inch screen. I used 4 40 watt cfl's ( total wattage 160 watts) and out of 4 plants looks like i will get approx 3 oz..Not bad for cfls..
So figger out your grow area first. You can get EXCELLENT returns with t5, cfl, or pll WITH the proper grow techs..
NOW THEN.. i did notice that the cfls did push put more heat than i was expecting.
AND i do NOT vent outside. Use just my INDOOR ambeient air temp.
I HAVE grown in a closet with a 400 watter. For the way i grow, the heat was TOO much.
My winter grows now are in a admoire, with a 250 watt hps w/ electronic ballast. AND i grow JUST as good (if not better) with a 250 watt hps than with a 400 watt hps.
Its all about ones setting up their grow area to flower the most effeicently with what is being used.... And remember... one will allways run into boneheads who have never grown with flouros or CFLs saying how flouros suck. Get your data do some research GOOD LUCK!!! PAX

 

[prop215]

floros will match hid

I STRONGLY disagree

 

[tejashidrow]

actully flouros CAN match HID WITH the proper growing techs. HIDs do have a wider margin of error than floros. thus in a way makeing it easyer to grow with hid.
HOWEVER a properly set up floro grow can and WILL rival a hid grow.
Maybe years ago it was not true, but technology has come a long way bahbee!!! Good Grow!!! PAX

 

[ScrubNinja]

actully flouros CAN match HID WITH the proper growing techs. HIDs do have a wider margin of error than floros. thus in a way makeing it easyer to grow with hid.
HOWEVER a properly set up floro grow can and WILL rival a hid grow.
Maybe years ago it was not true, but technology has come a long way bahbee!!! Good Grow!!! PAX

You guys are comparing one in a million fluoro grows to run of the mill hps grows though. Sure, occasionally someone gets their shit together with fluoros and manages to break 1gpw, but I don't see anyone on the micro forum (which should have a lot of properly set up fluoro grows, right?) even approaching 1gpw. Yeah drbud and one or two, that's it, and that is reaching way back into time.

I have never grown hps but just from the top of my head, look up a dude here called m_blaze. There's plenty of hps grows around getting far over 1gpw, I think M_blaze got like 3 or so. What I'm trying to say is that a totally on-point fluoro grow using every trick in the book, is never going to compete for yield with an equal wattage hps grow using every trick. And likewise, the average guy's fluoro setup is never going to compete with the average guy's equivalent hps setup.

actully flouros CAN match HID WITH the proper growing techs

Show me the 3gpw-ish fluoro grow, and I'll agree.

Well, match whatever the highest hps yield is anyway, I don't know it. You must compare apples to apples.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I have never grown hps but just from the top of my head, look up a dude here called m_blaze. There's plenty of hps grows around getting far over 1gpw, I think M_blaze got like 3 or so. What I'm trying to say is that a totally on-point fluoro grow using every trick in the book, is never going to compete for yield with an equal wattage hps grow using every trick. And likewise, the average guy's fluoro setup is never going to compete with the average guy's equivalent hps setup.

Very well put ;D Looks like you've read a lot of the same threads I have.

 

[Leviathan]

theres nothing advanced about beekaas grow, he just twist tied his branches to the scrog screen and grew in coco, sure he has it dialed but think about how many hid growers mess up there crops from the excessive heat output and take a few grows to get there systems dialed in, ive run cfls and hids, both rock, both are in my arsenol, im not for or against one or the other, but like i said on a horizontal grow its an even game, when going vertical circular stadium style hids crush the competitors in yeild.. it pretty much ends there, to grow beekaa style u would only need one run of coco in the past were u grasped the medium and how it works which is sooooooooo easy to do, after that its bend the plant over and tie it down, when someone runs this system with a 70 watt hps and reeps 210 grams then ill buy the 3 grams per watt potential, hid have two things u have to work with, excessive heat and the inverse law of light because u need to raise the light up because of said heat, i dont think people really have looked at the inverse square chart in some of the recent grow bibles to understand just how much light is lost as distance increases with hid lights, and how with equal watts of cfls evenly placed the lumes are about the same in what actually reaches your girls, to each his own, one persons headache is another persons asprin or aleeve.