How to pay your bills?

[growclean]

I am fully legal and in a med state trying run a legitimate business... however, we all know that the current state of affairs doesn't allow for this.

We have now been kicked out by our bank. They won't serve businesses of our kind anymore. I have also heard that the feds have used bank deposits as charges of money laundering...

So, we now currently don't have an account. We have been keeping cash in a safe (which seems way sketchier!) and paying bills with money orders. This has already been dificult enough (try to figure out how to pay payroll taxes now without a bank account), but I do have a few things that I NEED to pay by Credit Cards. I tried walmart, that has prepaid cards that after many steps you can load over $1000 on. However, these state that you can't use them without registering your Social Security Number online. That is the craziest thing that I have ever heard of, if I PREPAY, then why do they need my soc. and who would buy them???? Plus, if I wanted to use my soc, then I might as well just get a real card.

So how do I pay bills via a prepay without coughing up personal information?

Any other tips for a legal business operating under illegal laws?

 

[BigDawg]

hmm i don't recall the walmart cards asking for a social security #. I thought it was for verifying in case you lost the card or it got stolen? Is it not optional?

Legal or not I would never deposit cannabis proceeds in the bank much less claim it on taxes. You probably need to start an LLC or corporation and charge for your cargiving services, not actual bud sales. . Deposit a modest amount and pay taxes on that. I'm not in a med-state though so hopefully someone else will chime in.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

How did the bank know you were "our kind"?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

damn that sucks...i pay everything possible with cash or money order..sucks going to the post office so many damn times but money order is my favorite...and yes the IRS will try to jack you if you are using bank accounts they have already audited my friend who was only depositing 6k a month into Bank of america...

you can pay off credit cards with money orders...since they only allow 1k per MO i just send 2 or 3 never had a problem with that...even though the IRS can still see how much money is being paid off on the CC, so if you run up 3k a month they might inquire about that 36k per year...but my friend who does this claims that his way around it is to lie and say he charges his card for other peoples purchases and accepts cash from them (my cousin needed new washing machine so i charged my card and shes paying me back cash)...not sure how legit that is...

 

[Sam the Caveman]

I'm sure its illegal, but you could open up an investment account outside of the usa with a money manager and you can get debit card and check writing capabilities.

 

[dgr]

You really aren't going to name the bank?

 

[redbudduckfoot]

gas stations and drug stores have these cards called "Green Dot" and they are reloadable. when i used to use them for online poker they didnt require a social. they also sell them online, because some states dont sell them;(think its because of the no social security #)

hope this helps

 

[growclean]

They found out that we were MMJ because we are in a relatively small area and they "found a business card". Trust me, I have my own issues with the bank and what and how they are doing what they are doing. Our attorney says it is not worth the time, they are within their rights.

The fact is, it seems smarter to not have a bank account in this enviroment. Look at what yes4prop said. I know the money laundering charges story to be true through direct contact unfortunately. Even if we do get an account, which seems unavoidable. I do not want to run alot of money through it. I can complain and try to change it, but it is a fact that the gov doesn't play fair. Every normal citizen is treated like a terrorist now in our country, much less those of us in our shoes....

Green dot is the walmart cards that I looked at. Read the back, you have to go online to enter your ss before use. You pay your cash there, but then cannot use them without your ss. This might be fine for occassional use. But I am sure that thousands of dollars and multi years use would obviously be a red flag eventually. In that case, if there is nothing better, then it is probably is wiser to use a personal credit card and pay it via us postal money orders which already red flag at 3k a round.

Any other ideas?

 

[dgr]

growclean,
I first need to say that I have no business in the MMJ world. So, this isn't advice gained from experience.

It seems to me that it would be better to be audited and have a paper trail than to be raided with large sums of cash on hand. The IRS makes it clear what they consider deductible from illegal enterprises. Yup, you are expected to pay your taxes on your cocaine sales and only get to write off the cost of good sold. Why add tax evasion on top of anything else? GAAP is, well, generally accepted. Which means if it's followed, it should create not only a defense against money laundering but should disabuse prosecutors of moving forward on pressing those charges in the first place.

The flip side is obvious. Try to stay below all radar. I just don't see how that's possible with a legitimate business. I could theoretically go so far to say that you aren't trying to run a legitimate business but are trying to profit off of mmj. Granted, I don't know anything about you or your comfort levels. So let's just say I could say that especially since you did have a bank account so it seems that you were trying to play by the contradictory rules available. It seems like the easier path UNLESS you are popped.

JMHO

Maybe you should post a thread asking which banks collectives/dispensaries use? I recall a thread written by a collective owner and he mentioned his bank. All these 100s of dispensaries in Ca are running legit or they are getting themselves raided. That means they are banking and paying taxes.

Last I checked, harborside and others were being audited for disallowed deductions. They weren't being prosecuted for money laundering.

good luck

 

[growclean]

Thanks dgr.

I think that California is a far different enviroment than my state. Different set of problems and challenges. We do not have anything CLOSE to harborside. (I saw the story on harborside doing reality tv, with 80,000 paying customers?!?!?!) Plus, most of those california dispensaries act as middle men between growers and patients as I understand and were supposed to be operating as non-profits anyway. I am not sure how harborside and others stay safe, but at their level there is more involved. (Would be interesting to know what Steve DeAngelo recieves as a salary from this "non-profit".)

My point is that every state is a little different, and the feds involvement is also different. Plus, I have heard that plenty of California dispensaries are shut down every month. We are operating legally, by our state law and have always paid our taxes. We intend to profit (one day) and our accountant knows about every dollar coming in and out. I know that we are always in danger and at risk. I am just trying to minimize it, until we can all feel more comfortable and can operate fully out in the open.

Any more ideas on staying safe and legal in ideas to MMJ money?

 

[MIway]

GC~ yeah... several years ago, the anon money cards disappeared... I couldn't find one that would work with o/l & overseas processors unless you had registered a valid ssn + given out a mailing address. you can't even reload one unless you do this first... anymore. you can keep buying the 500 max & run em like that... the only way... and still yet, you can't do phone/ol processing... have to be there in person, unless you register the card, like you mentioned. that's greendot, which puts out the wm cards, and i can't find another one that doesn't do this as well. they shut this down as an anonymous money system... a few years ago. and this is esp true w o/l poker... the cards have to be registered for their processors to handle, and some are even blocking the processors after the fact.

cash money orders under 1k... pain in the ass... and it costs extra money, but the only way that i know of anymore... besides hard cash.

although it is another pain in the ass... you can another person flow your money from an independent biz, and maybe, personal acct... but there u'd have to trust someone else, they would have to be willing to funnel a lot of money + do the busy work of deposits & payments, and they would have to answer the questions if anyone asked.

banks in CO are doing the same thing... they practice internationally & are federally regulated... they aren't going to be willing to take the risk of moving sched I drug money until the fed gives a nod to go ahead or changes the laws. some credit unions are willing to do the risk however, and there was talk amongst the lawyers to have private investors put up reserves to service the community exclusively, but...???


EDIT~ and if your in MI & have some seed money & some peeps that can work an office (bondable)... i've got a great biz plan to hide private assets from anyone... fed auditors, local cops, banks, anyone... straight outta vegas baby... a brilliant little idea... was a personal account holder for a few years... great biz model... ;-)

 

[MIway]

thought you were making your way over bro??? we could do a little bit of damage... ;-) and bring those other two troublemakers with ya!

 

[Tilt]

Look at an American express card. I use to run a business on one.

 

[SunshineJoy]

I know PayPal is very down on anything they consider illegal, but as long as you are not a vendor of bongs or hydro equipment, it shouldn't be an issue.

I have a PayPal debit card with a Mastercard logo on it, that acts just like a credit card, in fact I get 1.5% cash back on signature purchases - those used as a "credit card". I usually fund it with my eBay sales, but I can use the green dot cards, and fund up to $2000 per month from cash.

If you just want something to use when only a credit card is really convenient, it might be an answer for you.

 

[headiez247]

It seems to me that it would be better to be audited and have a paper trail than to be raided with large sums of cash on hand. T

I agree. If you are paying taxes and acting legally, you want a bank account. Will not look good at all if you are audited and only are cash based.

I know you aren't in SoCal but here WellsFargo openly deals with collectives. When I had mine I went in and sorta beat around the bush about what I did and the woman came right out and said they are totally cool with it and that they have thousands of collective accounts, so I'd go check on them in your state.

 

[Midnight]

Money talks, bullshit walks and everyone wants to ride for free. If you are legal then start calling all the banks and credit unions around you. Be straight up with them and tell them what you do. I promise you that one of them will take your money.

 

[Mrs.Babba]

Is that the only bank around?...I work at a dispensary [in a small town] and the owner uses a bank, they know what we are and havent had an issue. There has to be another bank around.

 

[mrwags]

Is that the only bank around?...I work at a dispensary [in a small town] and the owner uses a bank, they know what we are and havent had an issue. There has to be another bank around.

I gotta agree with this one. You guys gotta remember everyday and I do mean everyday MILLIONS of dollars are sent to Mexico with Wal Mart perpaid credit cards. It has gone on for years but the Man is finally starting to take notice of it.

The fed I spoke with was adamant on the fact that they are doing the right thing when I asked him why not tax them when they get paid and then responded with oh yeah that would take some work he didn't like it very well but knew I was right.

Banks like money period and if this one won't take it I bet ya it would not take long to find one that will.


My Sad Penny
Mr.Wags

 

[Corpsey]

found this article which seems to be the most recent one i can find that mentions banks and Colorado(that is where you are right?).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/17/medical-marijuana-shops-s_n_879298.html

DISPENSARY-FRIENDLY BANK

The See Change study, which surveyed 300 wholesale and retail dispensary operators, said 24 percent reported that obtaining financing was their biggest worry.

Charles Mannon, president of the Savings Bank of Mendocino County, said he believes federal regulators hit his northern California bank with an enforcement action because the region is flush with medical-marijuana proceeds. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation said the bank had a weak anti-money laundering program, and the bank this year signed a legal agreement to tighten procedures.

"They just wanted to make sure that we do everything we're required to do to trace money laundering. They never specifically said anything about medical marijuana, but I think we were targeted because we are in a medical marijuana growing area," Mannon told Thomson Reuters.

Mannon said his bank is not seeking to cull medical marijuana dispensaries, but instead is closely monitoring "all accounts with lots of cash."

FDIC spokesman Greg Hernandez said the regulator has not put out "specific guidance" on medical marijuana businesses.

In Denver, Harank said the banks that rejected her said they had taken on too many medical pot businesses and that had "put them on the radar" of federal authorities.

Now, Harank's company has an account at CSSB Private Bank, a Colorado-based division of Texas-based Herring Bank, which she said is the only bank "openly" doing business with medical marijuana outfits.

Dustin Fisher, the vice-president for business development at CSSB, said it was created to cater to the medical marijuana industry and is planning to expand to other states. He did not elaborate.

Regulatory consultant and investigator Jim Dowling, a former federal agent, said his advice to banks is that they avoid medical marijuana dispensaries. He said they sometimes masquerade as other types of businesses to obtain accounts.

 

[NOTB]

just get a gift card (visa) work's great for me ..i order strains and all kindsa kinky shit.......