rustlessbiscuit
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Placehold
How to: "Crop-Steer" Manually, Without Sensors.
- Thread starter Thread starter rustlessbiscuit
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Can you post a photo?
rustlessbiscuit
Active member
My bad.
ill add some photos here in a few hours, waiting to get my phone back.
the few plants im attempting this with were stripped 3 nights ago on the 12th was waiting on a drip system to set up and thats ill be using to "manually Crop-Steer" if not hand watering.
rustlessbiscuit
Active member
So the idea is pretty simple
Fast dry backs = vegetative steering
Slower dry backs = generative steering
When & how is another thing
The idea is to tease you're substrates water content, now if you're familiar working with the substrate you grow in via coco or even better rockwool,and better, smaller containers.
spending sometime with you're plants and measuring watering amounts and observing, you can get a general idea of the substrates water content%
There's quite a few different contexts' and variables to this and one such is matric potential and osmotic pressure/potential
You can do this manually by weighing your media/figuring out the volume of you're substrate.
So VEG irrigation volume of the substrate = 1-4%(water/shots=/in mL)
X substrate volume veg/gen growth irrigation volume = you're "shot" amount, depending on ENV and media/size/plant, 2-10x times a lights on period.
These variables differ from substrate to you're environment parameters of course, but obviously in the context of maximizing variables for growth rate.
So same thing for flower but, 4-8% of substrate volume in mL shots/per watering event.
Soil-coco-rockwool and these methods are used in soil but forget soil for now.
Currently growing in 0.50 gallon containers of coco, media is about overtaken with roots - basically hydro at that point.
Environment manipulation is important, which includes VPD control, I also do this manually via balancing-
central air, how much the tent flaps are open,temp from lights, humidity/water released from plants/stripping the plants in flower - which can lead to "schwazzing" - but thats another context/topic as well.
airflow in the tent but no exhaust or intake are set up, currently.
Using thermos to see the temp/rh, besides feeling it to an extent.
Aroya has a good calculator for including VPD=RH/Temp/LeafSurfaceTemp
Veg and flower besides certain weeks are mostly 85f/75rh F/RH usually within 10~ points of each other
More to come
Timing & Substrate Management & Utilizing different Stressors & E.C/Water content(WC) Manipulation & Combining/Utilizing Multiple Techniques
Fast dry backs = vegetative steering
Slower dry backs = generative steering
When & how is another thing
The idea is to tease you're substrates water content, now if you're familiar working with the substrate you grow in via coco or even better rockwool,and better, smaller containers.
spending sometime with you're plants and measuring watering amounts and observing, you can get a general idea of the substrates water content%
There's quite a few different contexts' and variables to this and one such is matric potential and osmotic pressure/potential
You can do this manually by weighing your media/figuring out the volume of you're substrate.
So VEG irrigation volume of the substrate = 1-4%(water/shots=/in mL)
X substrate volume veg/gen growth irrigation volume = you're "shot" amount, depending on ENV and media/size/plant, 2-10x times a lights on period.
These variables differ from substrate to you're environment parameters of course, but obviously in the context of maximizing variables for growth rate.
So same thing for flower but, 4-8% of substrate volume in mL shots/per watering event.
Soil-coco-rockwool and these methods are used in soil but forget soil for now.
Currently growing in 0.50 gallon containers of coco, media is about overtaken with roots - basically hydro at that point.
Environment manipulation is important, which includes VPD control, I also do this manually via balancing-
central air, how much the tent flaps are open,temp from lights, humidity/water released from plants/stripping the plants in flower - which can lead to "schwazzing" - but thats another context/topic as well.
airflow in the tent but no exhaust or intake are set up, currently.
Using thermos to see the temp/rh, besides feeling it to an extent.
Aroya has a good calculator for including VPD=RH/Temp/LeafSurfaceTemp
Veg and flower besides certain weeks are mostly 85f/75rh F/RH usually within 10~ points of each other
More to come
Timing & Substrate Management & Utilizing different Stressors & E.C/Water content(WC) Manipulation & Combining/Utilizing Multiple Techniques
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rustlessbiscuit
Active member
Veg - you want to maximize nP = net photosynthesis rate as quick as possible is the goal (mine anyways).
obviously same thing in flower but in the context of indoor growing and not having moving light source and under LEDs which can lack "penetration"
once flower time comes, it's time to switch to generative steering, you can continue veg steering for the first 7-10days
/during stretch but again, another context/depends on other variables, like strain/genetics you're working with and space/heighth available.
so "stripping" the plants ie, removing ALL fan leafs and any leaf sticking out with a petiole, "over-shadowing" the "inner"-canopy.
1.allows the LEDs/light to penetrate through out the canopy.
2. Stresses the plant (in my mind, when the plant is healthy and established it's then like "fuck I need to grow these leafs back") and allows room for new/more growth.
pay attention to the "perk/pray" of the leafs and one may need to REDUCE TEMPORARILY---intensity/PPFD briefly after strip, as they are possibly now stressed & have less leafs for nP - net photosynthesis/rate
When a "fast-growing media or system is used, proper nutrient/E.C/parameters are dialed in, the plants recover quickly and grow quickly.
Now that the goal is to grow buds, a bunch of new nodes are able to grow as well and have the proper lighting/PPFD to grow "fat" and not "larfy"
If I left that plant untrimmed, those leafs blocking all the lower canopy and other "bud sites" and just sent it to flower till harvest,cid have a bunch of bullshit time-wasting larf to trim, and not "fat" solid mature buds that all finish/ripen around the same time.
obviously same thing in flower but in the context of indoor growing and not having moving light source and under LEDs which can lack "penetration"
once flower time comes, it's time to switch to generative steering, you can continue veg steering for the first 7-10days
/during stretch but again, another context/depends on other variables, like strain/genetics you're working with and space/heighth available.
so "stripping" the plants ie, removing ALL fan leafs and any leaf sticking out with a petiole, "over-shadowing" the "inner"-canopy.
1.allows the LEDs/light to penetrate through out the canopy.
2. Stresses the plant (in my mind, when the plant is healthy and established it's then like "fuck I need to grow these leafs back") and allows room for new/more growth.
pay attention to the "perk/pray" of the leafs and one may need to REDUCE TEMPORARILY---intensity/PPFD briefly after strip, as they are possibly now stressed & have less leafs for nP - net photosynthesis/rate
When a "fast-growing media or system is used, proper nutrient/E.C/parameters are dialed in, the plants recover quickly and grow quickly.
Now that the goal is to grow buds, a bunch of new nodes are able to grow as well and have the proper lighting/PPFD to grow "fat" and not "larfy"
If I left that plant untrimmed, those leafs blocking all the lower canopy and other "bud sites" and just sent it to flower till harvest,cid have a bunch of bullshit time-wasting larf to trim, and not "fat" solid mature buds that all finish/ripen around the same time.
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rustlessbiscuit
Active member
More to come
rustlessbiscuit
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...
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rustlessbiscuit
Active member
Formulate & Balance
rustlessbiscuit
Active member
Second strip after "stretch"/transition and Bud Set.
Tip: one can drop the photon source closer to the canopy to help prevent "over-stretching" or elongation, with other caveats/variables like DLI/intensity (PPFD)
4-8% of Substrate volume for "Generative" "Steering"
(1-4% for "vegetative steering")
~little less than half gallon pots, so (~4%) 160ml~ "shot" size hand-watered to the plants every hour or so, at 85f~ and 75rh~
Other variable to this as well of course, but the irrigation method/strategy is the main variable.
Now, when you have smaller pots and have a near/dried out medium, its been "reset"
Easier to "judge"/observe the possible "water content" "range(s)", especially when you're used to/familiar with the pots/substrate you're working with.
half gallon pots with 4foot plants/bushes under 85f/75rh~ and 500+PPFD 8-20inches away or so, they can DRINK (coco-sub), and when the whole container/substrate is enveloped with healthy white roots....
when giving "shot" size amount of nutrient solution, to you're substrates volume %, dry backs occur quickly, currently it seems 1-2hours for another shot or the substrate (coco/roots) will start to get to the danger zone of too dry.
And the last watering event hour or so before lights off, will be a bigger shot or a "flood" to run out any unused salts/nutrients and to prevent toxic build ups, and this helps make sure it doesn't get too dry while lights are off till the next fertigation event lights on or after, and depending on container volume , substrate plant and environment variables, a little watering event may be needed to prevent a possibly "dangerous" 100% rootzone/substrate Dryback.
(coco or rockwool, perlite or vermiculite)
May be the last post as no one seems to care (and that's perfectly ok) and these can get in-depth and time consuming.
Tip: one can drop the photon source closer to the canopy to help prevent "over-stretching" or elongation, with other caveats/variables like DLI/intensity (PPFD)
4-8% of Substrate volume for "Generative" "Steering"
(1-4% for "vegetative steering")
~little less than half gallon pots, so (~4%) 160ml~ "shot" size hand-watered to the plants every hour or so, at 85f~ and 75rh~
Other variable to this as well of course, but the irrigation method/strategy is the main variable.
Now, when you have smaller pots and have a near/dried out medium, its been "reset"
Easier to "judge"/observe the possible "water content" "range(s)", especially when you're used to/familiar with the pots/substrate you're working with.
half gallon pots with 4foot plants/bushes under 85f/75rh~ and 500+PPFD 8-20inches away or so, they can DRINK (coco-sub), and when the whole container/substrate is enveloped with healthy white roots....
when giving "shot" size amount of nutrient solution, to you're substrates volume %, dry backs occur quickly, currently it seems 1-2hours for another shot or the substrate (coco/roots) will start to get to the danger zone of too dry.
And the last watering event hour or so before lights off, will be a bigger shot or a "flood" to run out any unused salts/nutrients and to prevent toxic build ups, and this helps make sure it doesn't get too dry while lights are off till the next fertigation event lights on or after, and depending on container volume , substrate plant and environment variables, a little watering event may be needed to prevent a possibly "dangerous" 100% rootzone/substrate Dryback.
(coco or rockwool, perlite or vermiculite)
May be the last post as no one seems to care (and that's perfectly ok) and these can get in-depth and time consuming.
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rustlessbiscuit
Active member
Odd
rustlessbiscuit
Active member
So...i'm not familiar with this method. Is this something that you have previously followed?
I guess the object is better yield, at least more consistency with the buds.
I guess the object is better yield, at least more consistency with the buds.
rustlessbiscuit
Active member
Nope not done it this way before.
Something big commercial farms and cannabis farms do.
More control over how you want the plant to grow, yield and growth rates
Gruendaumen
New member
Hey
Ive just now stumbled upon this, how did you do?
Hand watering seems so tedious to do here, props!
Im just now starting to play around with precision irrigation myself. But i do it with drip irrigation.
Without substrate sensors though.
Really like the summary, how did it fare?
Did you need to place many night time irrigations? I imagine you did as those roots looking thicc.
How is your plan going forward?
Did you have a look into sensors and stoff to automate? Because i am planning in buying those a few cycles down the road.. but i first want to get a feeling for what im doing myself.
Ive just now stumbled upon this, how did you do?
Hand watering seems so tedious to do here, props!
Im just now starting to play around with precision irrigation myself. But i do it with drip irrigation.
Without substrate sensors though.
Really like the summary, how did it fare?
Did you need to place many night time irrigations? I imagine you did as those roots looking thicc.
How is your plan going forward?
Did you have a look into sensors and stoff to automate? Because i am planning in buying those a few cycles down the road.. but i first want to get a feeling for what im doing myself.
rustlessbiscuit
Active member
Hi, I'm sorry I wasn't active and did not respond to you.
I mostly agree with what I said before, some things may need updating though with what I've learned now, but the basis is there.
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