How to create an IBL strain

[joaquin386]

Hi,

I want to start these thread to know a working example on how to create an IBL strain from a female.

Are there any examples or live examples or studies carried out.

BR

Joaquin386

 

[jekyllandhyde]

Growing Marijuana (Growing Cannabis)
HOW TO TRUE BREED A STRAIN
Breeding and growing cannabis (growing marijuana) strains is all about manipulating gene frequencies. Most strains sold by reputable breeders through seed banks are very uniform in growth. This means that the breeder has attempted to lock certain genes down so that the genotypes of those traits are homozygous.
Imagine that a breeder has two strains: Master Kush and Silver Haze. The breeder lists a few traits that they particularly like (denoted by *).

This means they want to create a plant that is homozygous for the following traits and call it something like Silver Kush.

Silver Kush
Pale green leaf Hashy smell Silver flowers Short plants
All the genetics needed are contained in the gene pools for Master Kush and Silver Haze.The breeder could simply mix both populations and hope for the best or try to save time, space and money by calculating the genotype for each trait and using the results to create an IBL.

The first thing the breeder must do is to understand the genotype of each trait that will be featured in ideal "Silver Kush" strain. In order to do this the genotype of each parent strain for that same trait must be understood. Since there are four traits that the breeder is trying to isolate, and 4x2 = 8, eight alleles make up the genotypes for these phenotype expressions and must be made known to the breeder.

Let's take the pale green leaf of the Silver Haze for starters. The breeder will grow out as many Silver Haze plants as possible, noting if any plants in the population display other leaf colors. If they do not, the breeder can assume that the trait is either homozygous dominant (SS) or recessive (ss). If other leaf colors appear within the population, the breeder must assume that the trait is heterozygous (Ss) and must be locked down through selective breeding. Let's look closely at the parents for a moment.

If both parents were SS there wouldn't be any variation in the population for this trait. It would already be locked-down and would always breed true without any variations.

With one SS parent and one Ss parent, the breeder would produce a 50:50 population — one group being homozygous (SS) and the other heterozygous (Ss).

If both parents were Ss, the breeder would have 25 percent SS, 50 percent Ss and 25 percent ss. Even though gene frequencies can be predicted, the breeder will not know with certainty whether the pale green leaf trait is dominant or recessive until they perform a test cross. By running several test crosses the breeder can isolate the plant that is either SS or ss and eliminate any Ss from the group. Once the genotype has been isolated and the population reduced to contain only plants with the same genotype, the breeding program can begin in earnest. Remember that the success of any cannabis growing and breeding program hinges on the breeder maintaining accurate records about parent plants and their descendants so that they can control gene frequencies.

Let's say that you run a seed bank company called PALE GREEN LEAF ONLY BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOT UNIFORM LTD. The seeds that you create will all breed pale green leaves and the customer will be happy. In reality, customers want the exact same plant that won the cannabis cup last year or at least something very close. So in reality, you will have to isolate all the ^winning' traits before customers will be satisfied with what they're buying.

The number of tests it takes to know any given genotype isn't certain. You may have to use a wide selection of plants to achieve the goal, but nevertheless it is still achievable. The next step in a breeding program is to lock down other traits in that same population. Here is the hard part.

When you are working on locking down a trait you must not eliminate other desirable traits from the population. It is also possible to accidentally lock down an unwanted trait or eliminate desired traits if you are not careful. If this happens then you'll have to work harder to explore genotypes through multiple cross tests and lock down the desired traits. Eventually, through careful selection and record keeping you'll end up with a plant that breeds true for all of the features that you want. In essence, you will have your own genetic map of your cannabis plants.

Successful breeders don't try to map everything at once. Instead, they concentrate on the main phenotypes that will make their plant unique and of a high quality. Once they have locked down four or five traits they can move on. True breeding strains are created slowly, in stages. Well known true breeding strains like Skunk#l and Afghani#l took as long as 20 years to develop. If anyone states that they developed a true breeding strain in one or two years you can be sure that the genetics they started with were true breeding, homozygous, in the first place.

Eventually you will have your Silver Kush strain but only with the four genotypes that you wanted to keep. You may still have a variety of non-uniform plants in the group. Some may have purple stems, while others may have green stems. Some may be very potent and others not so potent. By constantly selecting for desired traits you could theoretically manipulate the strain into a true breeding strain for every phenotype. However, it is extremely unlikely that anyone will ever create a 100 percent true breeding strain for every single phenotype. Such a strain would be called a perfect IBL. If you're able to lock down 90 percent of the plant's phenotypes in a population then you can claim that your plant is an IBL.

The core idea behind the true breeding technique is to find what is known as a donor plant. A donor plant is one that contains a true breeding trait (homozygous, preferably dominant for that trait). The more locked down traits are homozygous dominant the better your chances of developing an IBL, which does not mean that the line of genetics will be true breeding for every trait, but rather that the strain is very uniform in growth for a high percentage of phenotypes.

http://www.marijuanahydro.com/truebreedingmarijuana.html

 

[Bacchus]

..Are there any examples or live examples or studies carried out.

Not here....

 

[Geezer 101]

"Well known true breeding strains like Skunk#l and Afghani#l took as long as 20 years to develop. If anyone states that they developed a true breeding strain in one or two years you can be sure that the genetics they started with were true breeding, homozygous, in the first place."

That's amazing...20 years! I have heard 6-9 years. But I guess you can get lucky and make an IBL in 2-3 years if the parent stock was true breeding. Like Deep Chunk I guess.

I guess that's the reason people work with SK no. 1 because it is so stable and it is easy to pick those pheno's out. How hard is it to make an IBL from two unrelated unstable polyhybrids? Just curious, not like I am ever going to do it.

 

[luminous]

 

[MedResearcher]

Great info.

Guess we better get to work asap

 

[DocLeaf]

Growdoc's Angel Dust is an IBL
Zamalito's C99 is an IBL

An 'ibl' is an inbred line.

peace dLeaf

 

[Bluebeard]

Lol, someone is sorely mistaken. It does not take 20 years to stabilize a line. A line can easily be stabilized in 3 years from a heterozygous f1. If you can only germinate 10 seeds at a time, yeah it will take 20 years. But if you are growing proper numbers indoors and/or using light manipulation outdoors then you can pull at least 3-4 crops a year and you can easily create a stabilized line in 3-4 years and apply a very high standard on your selection at that.

Also, skunk 1 did not take 20 years to create, and especially not afghani #1. These were being sold as il's in the early 80's in sssc catalogs. Perhaps I am wrong but from the way understand it, most of them started as breeding projects in the mid 70's and were being created almost side by side. If the focus was solely on one line, the they would have been created much faster.

 

[Bluebeard]

The breeder could simply mix both populations and hope for the best or try to save time, space and money by calculating the genotype for each trait and using the results to create an IBL.

I dont mean to come off as being adversarial but this type of practice does have a function but is very limited in actual usefulness in practical, real world breeding projects.

Since there are four traits that the breeder is trying to isolate, and 4x2 = 8, eight alleles make up the genotypes for these phenotype expressions and must be made known to the breeder.

To come up with your answer of 8 alleles, you have to assume quite a bit. Genes very rarely wrap themselves up in a nice little neat package like you are assuming. For something like leaf color, even in a line which is stabilized 3-4 alleles each at two dozen different loci which have a noticeable effect on leaf color, a large portion of which may or may not express in your particular growing conditions and may express completely differently in someone else's grow. Some may require a particular genotype in a seemingly unrelated trait to express, and some may only express if they have enough resources to, while sharing a resource pool with another trait. All of this can be going on, especially with seemingly simple traits such as leaf color.

The breeder will grow out as many Silver Haze plants as possible, noting if any plants in the population display other leaf colors. If they do not, the breeder can assume that the trait is either homozygous dominant (SS) or recessive (ss). If other leaf colors appear within the population, the breeder must assume that the trait is heterozygous (Ss) and must be locked down through selective breeding. Let's look closely at the parents for a moment.

No, this is simply not the case. Although you are not, lets assume that say you are correct, this phenotype is strictly controlled by one loci, and limited to two alleles at said loci. And say 100% of the original seeds you grow out are golden colored. How do you know the golden colored phenotype you speak of isnt the result of heterozygosity (Ss), and the breeder of the original seeds crossed a SS with an ss creating 100% of the offspring as being heterozygous. In this situation you are actually breeding for a phenotype which is by nature not true breeding. This is not a rare occurance, many physical traits are not true breeding and are the result of heterozygosity.


What works for me is three simple rules. 1. You have to love your plants and examine them as closely as possible. 2. You have to grow as large of a population as possible, and focus more on male selection than female. 3. Accept the best, and reject ALL others. Since most physical and aesthetic traits are controlled by more than one gene and very few exhibit simple dominant and recessive relationships with varying degrees of codominance, you are best off to select the strongest examples of the desired traits (except when breeding for insect and pathogen resistance but that is a different subject entirely) and not lump the plants into two phenotypes because the closer you look, the more phenotypes you will see for a particular trait.

 

[Guest]

 

[Super Grower]

ill be back

 

[Regginata]

Just curious. Why don't ppl like S1's

 

[abirdintheair]

joaquin, there was a HUGE thread that had grapepunched, h3ad, and some others discussing what it takes to make an ibl. if i remember right, and i prolly dont , if you take ur mom and make f1s, picked out one from the group and breed f2s, the f3s, etc, until you hit uniformity around the 3 or 4th incross.... but a good start would be to find and read that thread, its here under the breeders lab i think, will answer all your questions.


heh, i just looked for it, i forgot there was alot of bickering going on, might have got deleted....

 

[bagseed77]

c99 story, have a nice plant and want to stabilize it, just make seeds , cross back next generation male to original mom,75,percent mom, cross back again with next generation male to original mom and 88, do it again and so forth and bamm, stable seeds.

i havent tried this yet but it makes sense to me.

 

[Stoned Cold]

Growing Marijuana (Growing Cannabis)
If you're able to lock down 90 percent of the plant's phenotypes in a population then you can claim that your plant is an IBL.
http://www.marijuanahydro.com/truebreedingmarijuana.html

Ok, so I've got an MVTF#1 x Sour Bubble that seems to exhibit uniformity around 90% thus far...(maybe 4-5 of 100 deferred) Assuming these ratios prove to be consistent, ...how does THAT work?

In this scenario is it possible SSxSS=SS.....??????

 

[QWETminus60]

Article:

What are F1 Seeds? What about F2, F3, etc?

By Caroline | November 4th, 2020


I learned a lot reading the above article…
crossing OG Kush F2 or F3 auto seeds (huge late male produced pollen, about 30% of the auto strain were Photoperiod ) with a GSC F5 or so (Mostly stable Girl Scout cookies auto strain).
So … OG Kush auto(photo) X GSC auto

after reading the above article I’ll most likely have to grow this out four or five times to stabilize it, but I am fine with that.
both strains are very potent & The GSC auto female I picked was the holy grail out of about 40 that I grew
Reminds me when I opened a can of Maui Wowie Hawaiian in 1979 and I have never smelled anything like it …since that day.
so the objective is to stabilize hopefully this mother plant 2 ways by crossbreeding and inbreeding The best Pheno females !?!

 

[heirloomganja]

Article:

What are F1 Seeds? What about F2, F3, etc?

By Caroline | November 4th, 2020


I learned a lot reading the above article…
crossing OG Kush F2 or F3 auto seeds (huge late male produced pollen, about 30% of the auto strain were Photoperiod ) with a GSC F5 or so (Mostly stable Girl Scout cookies auto strain).
So … OG Kush auto(photo) X GSC auto

after reading the above article I’ll most likely have to grow this out four or five times to stabilize it, but I am fine with that.
both strains are very potent & The GSC auto female I picked was the holy grail out of about 40 that I grew
Reminds me when I opened a can of Maui Wowie Hawaiian in 1979 and I have never smelled anything like it …since that day.
so the objective is to stabilize hopefully this mother plant 2 ways by crossbreeding and inbreeding The best Pheno females !?!

Any link of the article above?