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How Big is Too Big? Growing, Greed, and Losing Ourselves

DuskrayTroubador

Well-known member
Veteran
I've recently read some posts about the new happenings in California: people getting permits issued for 7 acres of greenhouses +. It refreshed in my mind some questions and critiques I've had for a while now.

At what point is someone growing too much weed? On some level, with basic marketplace principles, people growing insane amounts of weed shuts out mom & pop growers and younger folks attempting to get started. Factor in collusion with legislators (e.g. bureaucratic hoops, costly/implausible compliance restrictions, and even limiting number of permits issued) and the problem is exacerbated.

Now the greed argument is a bit of :deadhorse although, I feel I ought to add my :2cents: quickly: if you're in California and have 99 flowering plants outdoors (which I actually think, while still a lot, isn't going too far) and you're a skilled grower with some funds, say you average 10lbs per. Even selling for $1500/lb that's grossing almost 1.5 million dollars... Holy shit, Batman. ...and people want to have 7 ACRES of greenhouses? Does anybody need that much annual revenue?

BUT, I think what's more interesting than the debate over greed (which, while I don't think people should go to jail over cannabis, I think that greed ought to be a punishable offense) is the question of whether or not people with several acres of greenhouses with hundreds and hundreds of plants - or a dozen warehouses; you get the idea - are actually even growing anymore.

What I mean by that is backyard farmers and guerrilla growers might sometimes have some helpers, but they're still really engaging with the plants, doing shit themselves, actually physically gardening. With several acres of greenhouses or a dozen warehouses the individual isn't so much gardening anymore as supervising or micromanaging workers (who probably not earning a fair share). In this sense, by "growing" insane amounts of weed, individuals are actually distancing themselves from the art of cultivation; they've, at least at some level, become less of growers and more of managers. While they may still 'show them how it's done', they're nonetheless distanced the actual growing process. Their job is less about caring for the plants and more about keeping people in line and getting logistics in order.

I question whether or not some of these folks explicitly recognize themselves as being less and less part of the gardening process; moreover, I wonder if it takes a toll on them in terms of their happiness and wellbeing (assuming that growing was something they pursued not just for profit, but out of enjoyment and a sense of purpose).

Just some musings of mine. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I can't help but think that there's something much more satisfying about being an involved grower taking ownership of, pride in, care and responsibility for one's garden as opposed to being in some sort of managerial position.

Hopefully others can comment. If this phenomenon which I suspect is real, acknowledging it might not just be good for the profession and its up-and-comers, but also the individuals who love growing but now feel themselves dispersed in the world of logistics and management.
 
U

usually

I question whether or not some of these folks explicitly recognize themselves as being less and less part of the gardening process; moreover, I wonder if it takes a toll on them in terms of their happiness and wellbeing (assuming that growing was something they pursued not just for profit, but out of enjoyment and a sense of purpose).

Indoor growers are the worst.
 

rykus

Member
Actually, exponential learning occurs at higher turn around rates with more rooms...

Yeah greed is an issue... But what is more greedy, growing 24 10 lbs plants by yourself and being able to get cash, dodge taxes, create little employment, generally take more resources with less accountability, ect....

Or putting millions of your $ on the line, hiring local hands and creating jobs and stimulating local economy, having to be accountable on product and sprays, water consumption ect..

Also the more these big grows equals more competition by major manufacturers of food and lighting tech ect.... Bringing down costs and bringing jobs and tech to that side too which will ultimately be good for home growers as well....


In closing.... Being poor is greedy too... And if we don't band together for a better weed scene then you'll be enjoying low $ lead saturated packs of pre rolled MJ from China...

Just to see it from both sides... But yeah I agree as I worked already at some rich douches "start up" 400 lighter.... He was more worried about being able to go public and make money from shares after battering his spouse than he was about making money off yeild...
 

DuskrayTroubador

Well-known member
Veteran
10 lb plants? really?

Take a look around the outdoor forum here. There are guys growing 13lb plants. A guy on another forum I'm on grows 7lb plants in a greenhouse in Montana. It ain't as crazy as ya might think.

Actually, exponential learning occurs at higher turn around rates with more rooms...

Yeah greed is an issue... But what is more greedy, growing 24 10 lbs plants by yourself and being able to get cash, dodge taxes, create little employment, generally take more resources with less accountability, ect....

Or putting millions of your $ on the line, hiring local hands and creating jobs and stimulating local economy, having to be accountable on product and sprays, water consumption ect..

Also the more these big grows equals more competition by major manufacturers of food and lighting tech ect.... Bringing down costs and bringing jobs and tech to that side too which will ultimately be good for home growers as well....


In closing.... Being poor is greedy too... And if we don't band together for a better weed scene then you'll be enjoying low $ lead saturated packs of pre rolled MJ from China...

Just to see it from both sides... But yeah I agree as I worked already at some rich douches "start up" 400 lighter.... He was more worried about being able to go public and make money from shares after battering his spouse than he was about making money off yeild...

It also depends a lot on how good said jobs are. A lot of people provide jobs for people but pay them pennies compared to what they bring in for the guy who owns everything.

I also think it's debatable about whether soil amendments/nutrients/other stuff gets cheaper when giant grows are involved. I imagine it's possible that companies can charge more, knowing that some bigshot WILL pay. Idk though.

...but you're right, small-timers can be greedy too. But I think that's a separate issue from what I'm talking about; the guys with 24 10lbers who only want to profit, use/waste more water than they need, spray questionable shit on their plants, etc just fall into the category of money-grubbing assholes. But lots of us care about putting a really good, clean product out there that we can be proud of and that people can enjoy - without needing to be held accountable to do so.

What I'm talking about is more along the lines of guys & gals who actually really enjoy growing, but keep thinking/saying "time to go BIGGER!" to the point where they kind of cease to be growers and become more along the lines of managers/businessmen mainly. I think that's not just bad for the community for economic reasons, but I also think they're misguided in thinking that there's a ladder to climb in terms of growing more & more as much as they can. That kind of thinking, I think, is only going to distance themselves from the endeavor that they enjoy.

And I think that the further away from that endeavor they let themselves get, the less satisfied they'll actually be. In this sense, I actually think we'd all be happier and better off if people focused on becoming better at the craft of gardening as opposed to just increasing the size of their farm.
 
U

usually

Actually, exponential learning occurs at higher turn around rates with more rooms...

Yea if there is a capacity limit or a number limit you get 100% of a pay check faster by having 2 rooms and throwing away the excess then someone will from trying to max out 1 room. Thats the most common war there is imo. Guys with 2 wives are all douche bags lol.
 

rykus

Member
I mean when I was in a place with 20 20 light rooms, if I implement something I've already repeated it and improved on it 20 times by the time a guy with a flip n a veg have even cut once and when the time comes he might not even remember specifics... Just a time / scale that can't be matched.... It's like anything really... A profesional does something all day every day, even an advanced and well funded enthusiast will rarely compete with a sponsored profesional....sports, arts, work and weed...

I agree with some of the principals of this thread.... Me and a good friend joked during the one crash that we would have been better off sticking to our smaller ops and lower profiles,but the other part of me gets a hate on because the reason our smaller ops worked is we ran them and told no one, and received little help if any... The reason our expansions cost us tons of outlay and had worse returns is because people thought we were getting rich, we're getting half the money and putting none back in, doing drugs and all of a sudden we were getting rich off them... Lol... Haters... I seriously resent that union attitude of people looking at what the other guy gets, if u had wanted that head ache and risk you would be there too... Lol it's not like it takes a lot of money...

Sorry too rant but it gets me.. And too answer from what I see, my friends that own lots of big things either a. Never grew till it was less risk and more reward than what ever they did before, and they just run people, get paid same as before.

Other guys are my old grower buddies and they all still have one at least they run,usually their best,lol usually at their places. Some also run bigger ones too but yeah more manage bulk workers and do feeds ect.... Still pretty hands on though and if commercial licences go through for Canada a few might end up doing really big cool things!

I don't like disrespect or drama from either side though... It's a great job and people should be stoked IMO.... Or do it how you think it should be!
 

zizration

Member
20 x 20 light rooms. ? better have good drainage..lol



10 lbs plants! fuk i had no idea...


personally I'm not a fan of the "walmart" operations. most spray w poison, and use PGR...in addition no protection for workers of any kind. i highly doubt any of the big outfits pay taxes....
 

Betterhaff

Well-known member
Veteran
This discussion reminds me of a pub owner. He had a small, very good, and successful operation. But it was small, really small. He decided to expand and started making plans. After a while he thought to himself, what am I doing? I’m happy, my employees are happy, the patrons are happy, what more do I need? He dropped his expansion plans and said it was one of the best decisions he ever made. Moral of the story…bigger is not always better.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
A grow op becomes too big when the operator looses his/her love for the plant.

I mean... check out RB-26!

He's running a commercial grow but by the quality of product he & his team put out you know there's much love for the plant.

On the other hand there's folks that are purely for profit growers. Some might only grow a dozen or so 6-10 pounders but they use chems, dont flush, think their product is top shelf & charge like it is too.

If greed were punishable, the Rothschilds & all their minions would be in prison where they belong.
Greed is what runs the politico/corporate world.
 
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