Honey QWISO Forum (lets show them why qwiso is the best)

[Gray Wolf]

would really like to hear some comments on my last batch there

Looks inticing from here! Our smiling volunteer test panel will be happy to evaluate it for you and provide detailed observations.

 

[stoNerd]

99% isopropyl vs. everclear/spirytus/clear springs/etc vs. moonshine vs. denatured alcohol, etc?

Dried and cured vs. dried vs. fresh?

Whole buds being a 1, and finely ground being a 10, how fine do you like to trim before the wash, and for how many seconds?

Seems to be many varying techniques, and preferences. Which will yield the highest quality & taste?

 

[Lazyman]

Freezing to tie up the water and watching the timing closely made a big difference in the quality of my quick wash.

Here is a picture of a pristine 3 minute quick wash ethanol extraction showing only amber. I used frozen cured material and chilled 190 proof Clear Springs with minimal shaking.

Here is a 10 minute wash using the same material and processing conditions, which shows the nasty tasting water solubles like chloraphyll starting to leach out.

Nice pics man. I took about a half gallon of scissor wash/finger hash from my latest trim job (was pretty dark brown) filtered it (yuck!) and got some nice brown 70% alcohol out of it. I put it in the freezer for a few days and I don't see any layering or sediment in it, so I'm gonna air dry it.

I put the rest of my wet good trim into paper bags in the freezer (about 15# worth) and am gonna try a wash with frozen denatured and frozen wet trim, will also try re-freezing the wash after its done to see if any plant waxes etc settle out. Wish me luck!

 

[stoNerd]

Can you go into more detail as to why denatured is better than isopropyl lazyman?

Denatured alcohol (or methylated spirits) is ethanol that has additives to make it more poisonous or unpalatable.
^Reading that just doesn't settle well.

 

[Lazyman]

For one ISO is more expensive and has a percentage of water in it (iso is poisonous too.)

Denatured alcohol is methanol (racing fuel) ethanol (booze) and ~.5% ketones, all of which evaporate at ~200*F. It's about $16 a gallon, vs about $24 a gallon for 99% iso, if you can find it by the gallon. It's also much less suspicious to buy 5 gallons of SLX at Home Depot than it is to buy 40 bottles of ISO at Safeway.

 

[Batboy]

Great thread.

If the contents of Denatured Alcohol evaporate at roughly 200F, does that mean that you should only use Denatured if you are going to use heat for evaporation? If I wanted to let them evaporate at room temp in front of a fan, should I only use ISO?

I too am interested in seeing your findings re frozen vs. fresh, Denatured vs. ISO vs. Grain and if trim should be ground up or used whole.

 

[Lazyman]

I find that denatured evaporates pretty well too (no water content to slow it down) but it will take a while. It IS faster to evap than ISO (ISO has water in it.) If you put it in front of a fan cover it with a screen or mesh so dust and hair doesnt get blown into it. I have chinchillas and their fur/dust gets everywhere!

 

[MAc Dre]

This is all great info on iso and denatured, But i was wondering why nobody seems to use acetone? It evaporates at a lower temp than denatured and you can buy it by the gallon at home depot. It's an organic compound and is naturally in your body. If anyone could give me some info i would really appreciate it. Thank you

 

[stoNerd]

Lazyman, thanks for the reply.. is SLX the brand name then? Looking forward to the results of your experiment. I will be experimenting soon hopefully

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Methanol is poisonous.

Alcohol is poisonous.

There is only water as an additive to isopropyl.

Just keeping an even keel.

 

[jtechnical]

Im considering trying a QWISO for the first time. I believe I have everything figured out but im still contemplating how im going to go about the evaporation process. If i go with the air evap im curious what i could use to keep out dust etc. aside from a window screen? Aside from that method im also curious about exactly how to go about the double boiler? Thanks

 

[Rafedial1]

recent qwiso batch for my edibles. 30 seconds to saturate, 30 seconds of shaking. I use frozen mason jars, freezing temp ISO, frozen very dry trim. Pyrex pie glass to evap with.

I love Qwiso!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Great thread.

If the contents of Denatured Alcohol evaporate at roughly 200F, does that mean that you should only use Denatured if you are going to use heat for evaporation? If I wanted to let them evaporate at room temp in front of a fan, should I only use ISO?

I too am interested in seeing your findings re frozen vs. fresh, Denatured vs. ISO vs. Grain and if trim should be ground up or used whole.

Methanol, Ethanol, Isopropyl, and Methyl Isobutyl Keytone all have vapor points significantly below their boiling points. They all evaporate at ambient, it just takes longer.

Purges above the melting point of THC, at about 105F and CBD at about 156F, are faster than if the oil pool has solidified and molecular activity is low.

Whether you use no heat, low heat, or higher temperatures briefly, depends a lot on what your end use is planned to accomplish.

THCA also decarboxylates to THC and subsequently CBN at ambient as well, but does so faster as the temperature increases.

If you are going to vaporize or smoke it and wish to preserve maximum head effect, lower purge temperatures are in order. The THCA will decarboxylate into THC when it reaches the higher vaporization temperatures on the spot, so decarboxylating it ahead of time is not necessary.

Besides minimizing CBN production, lower temperatures also preserve more of the aromatic turpenoids and flavoids, which give the different strains their unique flavors and aromas.

If you are going to ingest it, the THCA must be converted to THC for your body to assimilate it, so purging and decarboxylating at the same time will minimize the time at temperature, steadily making CBN out of THC, and boiling off turpenoids and flavoids.

I have also noticed that the three different alcohols extract concentrates that all have slightly different character and taste.

I re-dissolve my methanol and isopropyl extractions in an ethanol wash and cook that off as well if I am going to use it for anything other than topical, and you can readily see what some of the differences are, by what precipitates out of suspension in the ethanol.

Interestingly, even after an ethanol wash, they still have different effect and taste differently.

Water is the bane of the alcohol process, because alcohol is highly polar and therefore miscible in water. The water brings the water solubles like Chlorophyll and plant alkaloids with it, which turns the solution green and detracts from the flavor.

For oral meds, excess Chlorophyll also gives some patients digestive tract issues, so regardless of those arguments that Chlorophyll is salubrious and should be preserved, it tastes bitter in concentration and makes some folks ill.

I also notice that the medications work very well without it, so my best suggestion is for those who feel that way, to obtain your bodies daily Chlorophyll requirements from another source.

I have yet to do a fresh green frozen extraction with alcohol, though I have a pint of fresh picked mid harvest G13 buds in the freezer awaiting me to find time to do so.

I have extracted frozen material using chilled butane however and the flavors are delightful when vaporized, and the word most often used to describe it by the test panel was “fresh.”

The words most used to describe my QWET extractions, are ‘spicy and perfumy’ and my BHO “hashy.”

As far as running whole or grinding it up, the cleanest extractions are from material without broken plant material in it, but it is also the smallest.

Since quick wash techniques require more than one extraction, you have the option of doing both a mostly whole and then a ground material extraction.

I don’t use a grinder or mixer to reduce my material, because it also chops up the leaf veins and stems, as well as make a lot of fines that don’t all filter out.

I put my material on a cookie sheet in a 200F oven until it is just frangible, as determined by my being able to roll it between my finger and thumb and have it crumble.

I then work it through a pasta strainer using a leather gloved hand and firm pressure. It produces minimal fines and removes all the wood from the mix, so as to minimize woody and alkaloid flavors.

The process also takes most of the water out of the process. Cured bud is still about 15% water. I bag it to keep it dry and use it as soon as possible.

One thing that I have noticed, is regardless of how badly I have screwed up a batch by oversight, inattention, or experimentation, some patient somewhere, thought it was great and was glad to have it, so have heart working out the kinks in your process. It is all good, some is just ever so much better!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I like to wash my stuff while it's fresh.

The water in the plant is taking up space that the alcohol would later.

 

[stoNerd]

Could you make bubble, QWISO, then peanut butter oil? I was thinking about doing that to utilize all parts of the plant. I'm one of those people who hates to waste.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Could you make bubble, QWISO, then peanut butter oil? I was thinking about doing that to utilize all parts of the plant. I'm one of those people who hates to waste.

Yes you can, but after a couple of washes, the remaining material to be gleaned will be low, so you may have to cycle material through the oil to build up the potency.

ISO is miscible in oil, so I would take the oil to a high enough temperature afterwards to cook off any remaining alcohol, given that you intend it for oral consumption.

 

[shawkmon]

frsh frozen trim, frozen jar, frozen alcohol, i used 91 , put in jar and shake like fuck for 15 seconds, strain fast with kitchen strainer, evap, pow, perfect qwiso, looks like gold, easy sneezy, i call it half melt

 

[Batboy]

frsh frozen trim, frozen jar, frozen alcohol, i used 91 , put in jar and shake like fuck for 15 seconds, strain fast with kitchen strainer, evap, pow, perfect qwiso, looks like gold, easy sneezy, i call it half melt

Wow. I did the EXACT same thing last night (frozen fresh, 91 ISO, 15 second or less shake) but used a coffee filter and slow, room temp evap. Got 2 gold and one greenish. Pyrex dishes were good to go this morning.


GRAY WOLF - I always dig your insight into hash, extractions, edibles, etc. You are either really full of shit or you really know your shit, I think the later. Question regarding one thing you wrote above:

Since quick wash techniques require more than one extraction, you have the option of doing both a mostly whole and then a ground material extraction.

If we are talking about QWISO, doesn't that imply one extraction? Each subsequent extraction brings more chlorophyll and other crap that make for a dark, goopy, gross product. What do mean by "quick wash techniques require more than one extraction"?

 

[eloquentsoution]

Methanol, Ethanol, Isopropyl, and Methyl Isobutyl Keytone all have vapor points significantly below their boiling points. They all evaporate at ambient, it just takes longer.

Purges above the melting point of THC, at about 105F and CBD at about 156F, are faster than if the oil pool has solidified and molecular activity is low.

Whether you use no heat, low heat, or higher temperatures briefly, depends a lot on what your end use is planned to accomplish.

THCA also decarboxylates to THC and subsequently CBN at ambient as well, but does so faster as the temperature increases.

If you are going to vaporize or smoke it and wish to preserve maximum head effect, lower purge temperatures are in order. The THCA will decarboxylate into THC when it reaches the higher vaporization temperatures on the spot, so decarboxylating it ahead of time is not necessary.

Besides minimizing CBN production, lower temperatures also preserve more of the aromatic turpenoids and flavoids, which give the different strains their unique flavors and aromas.

If you are going to ingest it, the THCA must be converted to THC for your body to assimilate it, so purging and decarboxylating at the same time will minimize the time at temperature, steadily making CBN out of THC, and boiling off turpenoids and flavoids.

I have also noticed that the three different alcohols extract concentrates that all have slightly different character and taste.

I re-dissolve my methanol and isopropyl extractions in an ethanol wash and cook that off as well if I am going to use it for anything other than topical, and you can readily see what some of the differences are, by what precipitates out of suspension in the ethanol.

Interestingly, even after an ethanol wash, they still have different effect and taste differently.

Water is the bane of the alcohol process, because alcohol is highly polar and therefore miscible in water. The water brings the water solubles like Chlorophyll and plant alkaloids with it, which turns the solution green and detracts from the flavor.

For oral meds, excess Chlorophyll also gives some patients digestive tract issues, so regardless of those arguments that Chlorophyll is salubrious and should be preserved, it tastes bitter in concentration and makes some folks ill.

I also notice that the medications work very well without it, so my best suggestion is for those who feel that way, to obtain your bodies daily Chlorophyll requirements from another source.

I have yet to do a fresh green frozen extraction with alcohol, though I have a pint of fresh picked mid harvest G13 buds in the freezer awaiting me to find time to do so.

I have extracted frozen material using chilled butane however and the flavors are delightful when vaporized, and the word most often used to describe it by the test panel was “fresh.”

The words most used to describe my QWET extractions, are ‘spicy and perfumy’ and my BHO “hashy.”

As far as running whole or grinding it up, the cleanest extractions are from material without broken plant material in it, but it is also the smallest.

Since quick wash techniques require more than one extraction, you have the option of doing both a mostly whole and then a ground material extraction.

I don’t use a grinder or mixer to reduce my material, because it also chops up the leaf veins and stems, as well as make a lot of fines that don’t all filter out.

I put my material on a cookie sheet in a 200F oven until it is just frangible, as determined by my being able to roll it between my finger and thumb and have it crumble.

I then work it through a pasta strainer using a leather gloved hand and firm pressure. It produces minimal fines and removes all the wood from the mix, so as to minimize woody and alkaloid flavors.

The process also takes most of the water out of the process. Cured bud is still about 15% water. I bag it to keep it dry and use it as soon as possible.

One thing that I have noticed, is regardless of how badly I have screwed up a batch by oversight, inattention, or experimentation, some patient somewhere, thought it was great and was glad to have it, so have heart working out the kinks in your process. It is all good, some is just ever so much better!

very nice review, gw.

i would like to add that if you plan to keep your oil around for any period of time, water will cause rancidity. be sure to remove it before storing. i always boil it out as i store at room temp.

 

[Gray Wolf]

GRAY WOLF[/b] - You are either really full of shit or you really know your shit, I think the later. Question regarding one thing you wrote above:

If we are talking about QWISO, doesn't that imply one extraction? Each subsequent extraction brings more chlorophyll and other crap that make for a dark, goopy, gross product. What do mean by "quick wash techniques require more than one extraction"?

I would say some of both, depending on the subject matter. Ask the current Gray Fox of 26 years and my ex wife for the details.

When I talk about quick wash techniques, I am not just talking about just QWISO, I am also including QWET, and QWME.

If you leave the material and solvent together long enough to get a good extraction, it is too long. I try to get about 75% the first wash, and pick up the rest with a second wash.

I dry and refreeze before the second wash. There should be no more water the second time than the first, though the yield is way lower and it is produces less head effect.

I keep the two washes separate, because of the differences in effect. The first is noticeably speedier than the second, but both provide stelar pain relief.