High Alkalinity Water

[bye12]

Hi there fellow growers,

I'm Just in the process of switching to organic growing, but have had problems with my water on my previous grows so decided to get an inexpensive water test and got some mixed results. (see table below)
So my last grows I had to adjust the PH of my Blumat Reservoir all the time to keep the PH kind of stable. And it didn't work out good.

So my question is,
Do I need a reverse osmosis system to fix my water problem when growing organic?
Or is there a better way to amend my soil to combat my water?

My soil consists of:
1part Peatmoss
1part Aeration,
1part Wormcasting
biochar
Ecothrive life-cycle (N/P/K/+ Mg/Ca - 3 /0.5 /1.5/ + 1/5)

I will run 2x75l (20Gal) grow bags with Tropf Blumat drippers.
Other amendments I thought to buy, Alfalfa, Neem cake, Malted Barley, Hydrolysed Kelp

 

[Maple_Flail]

water this kinda ph will allow you to use more acidic soil mixes..

could also get a bunch of sulfur rocks and leave them in your res.. might take some trial and error on quantity needed but sulfur will buffer your ph down abit.

IMHO add some cottonseed meal or acid mix ,that should be all you need to your soil mix.

 

[St. Phatty]

Is it well water or urban water that comes from the city ?

 

[bye12]

Is it well water or urban water that comes from the city ?

It is urban water that comes from the Alps, I live in Europe if that makes any different.

 

[bye12]

water this kinda ph will allow you to use more acidic soil mixes..

could also get a bunch of sulfur rocks and leave them in your res.. might take some trial and error on quantity needed but sulfur will buffer your ph down abit.

IMHO add some cottonseed meal or acid mix ,that should be all you need to your soil mix.

So you think that as long as my soil is acidic enough it would be fine to water with PH 8-9?
For me that seems crazy but again I never grown in living soil before, but if that's the case I could basically just up the % of peat moss to lower the PH?

 

[Maple_Flail]

So you think that as long as my soil is acidic enough it would be fine to water with PH 8-9?
For me that seems crazy but again I never grown in living soil before, but if that's the case I could basically just up the % of peat moss to lower the PH?

you could do that, and that may be a better idea looking again at how much EWC you got in your mix.. I'd add another 60% of 1 part more peat.

Malted barley will also work. still think atleast an organic Acid mix, stuff labeled azalea, blueberry, carrot, and tomato those sorta things and shrubs/ferns this will help later in bloom especially if it is lower solubility and there is time for microbes to work

you can check, give your self a test pot.. the run off is the water soluble stuff, that is a first step. then test a soil slurry (easy look up on google) to get the idea of what the soil is doing with the water on the insoluble aspects. if both tests come out just under 7 ph you are on the right mix.. if your mix is off the two tests will have a wider gap of ph.

 

[bye12]

you could do that, and that may be a better idea looking again at how much EWC you got in your mix.. I'd add another 60% of 1 part more peat.

Malted barley will also work. still think atleast an organic Acid mix, stuff labeled azalea, blueberry, carrot, and tomato those sorta things and shrubs/ferns this will help later in bloom especially if it is lower solubility and there is time for microbes to work

you can check, give your self a test pot.. the run off is the water soluble stuff, that is a first step. then test a soil slurry (easy look up on google) to get the idea of what the soil is doing with the water on the insoluble aspects. if both tests come out just under 7 ph you are on the right mix.. if your mix is off the two tests will have a wider gap of ph.

I will definitely try with some test pots in the future but for now I don't have the time and money to lose.
So have decided to get a reverse osmosis filter. Have read that RO water is acidic so will balance it out with tap water until desired PH is reached.
Any suggestions otherwise?

 

[Nannymouse]

We have had R/O units in our house for years. Do not assume that the R/O water is in the safe zone. Hubby was trying to save water, so didn't have it set to flush often enough, and our water tested out over 9. So, even the R/O water needs to be tested, once in a while.

 

[VenerableHippie]

water this kinda ph will allow you to use more acidic soil mixes..



IMHO add some cottonseed meal or acid mix ,that should be all you need to your soil mix.

I use alkaline water with no trouble. I don't know the specifics of my water but calcites precipitate out of it and a white layer eventually forms on the surface of the soil. However under the surface all seems well.

Like Maple Flail above I think you will be able to balance out yr alkalinity with, say, manures.

Test grow ... the learning is in the doing ...

 

[sallyforthDeleted member 75382]

Also you could lower the ph of the water with vinegar. My water from the tap tests 8.7 on average so I pop about 3 ml of vinegar into a bucket of water and get it to about 6 - 6.5. With organic the usual ph down in bottles will cause problems unless it’s for organics.

 

[Three Berries]

My water is 7.4 and near 500 ppm. I mix 50/50 well rain and with full strength nutes still have to add pH up at the end. Straight well and full strength comes out about right. pH wise but a lot of calcium, ~440ppm

 

[xet]

People have the wrong idea about alkalinity. Many farmers use lakewater with a ph of 8 and 9 to water their crops

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Using r/o water allows you to easily get and share workable advice from/with other r/o users with similar setups.

Start clean and remove the guesswork. Also, if you decide to use neem/azadirachtin anything, be kind and let those you are sharing with know you have used it. I and a growing number of people will thank you, and then refuse to use it.

Thank you so much!!

Edit: a healthy plant will not need neem/aza to fend off bugs. If you are "all organic" you should not have bug issues anyway. If you still do, rabbit manure has the micros and trace elements in the levels you need.

 

[bye12]

Using r/o water allows you to easily get and share workable advice from/with other r/o users with similar setups.

Start clean and remove the guesswork. Also, if you decide to use neem/azadirachtin anything, be kind and let those you are sharing with know you have used it. I and a growing number of people will thank you, and then refuse to use it.

Thank you so much!!

Edit: a healthy plant will not need neem/aza to fend off bugs. If you are "all organic" you should not have bug issues anyway. If you still do, rabbit manure has the micros and trace elements in the levels you need.

To my understanding RO water is slightly acidic 6-6.5 PH and unstable so thought to mix in some tap water to get some minerals in there, it will probably raise the PH a little but should be fine as long as it is below 7.

I thought neem was well used within the organic side of growing, both as a fertiliser and in IPM.
Am I wrong here? do you have any other info?

A health plant is only healthy until it get infested with bugs or any other problem, so I do think that IPM is an important step for many growers to try and minimise the risks.
Im not sure what you mean with that "all organic" should not have bug issues?
Rabbit manure seems great but I'm just dipping my toes in the organic for now the rest can wait a little, but thank for the tip.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

r/o is 7 which is neutral. At 4ppm, meters work just fine.

You'll find lots of people who have figured out their digestive and pain issues are because of the azadirachtin in neem, and do their best to avoid it.

Cannabis is a dynamic accumulator plant (unlike most plants). It binds elements and molecules (unconverted) to new growth tissue (your flowers) and is unable to be flushed out in any way. My personal testing also shows aza does not break down easily in cannabis, making it a problem for myself and others. It remains long after application and long after harvest.

Do a search for "cannabis CHS azadirachtin" and read for a bit. The neem industry has been booming for decades, this issue has been around since about 2 years after aza was approved for agricultural use, and I have yet to see any formal studies on cannabis and aza.

I have zero issues with massive amounts of THC and cannabis, including extracts and edibles. Add some neem/aza in there and I have CHS issues every time.

You'd avoid it too.

 

[bye12]

I guess the Ph depends on what water you start with when using RO filter.
Don't have filter and meter yet to try with so don't know what mine will be.


I think an old friend of mine might have had CHS without knowing what it was. He smoked a lot of Cannabis but noting that had been in contact with neem. He grew it himself and was all synthetic.
But CHS might have several causes.

I did some searches as you said I still believe Neem is safe to use for cannabis growing as long as its not used as spray in flower.
I will take the risk and if I feel sick I keep the neem in mind. Thanks for the head up

What kind of personal testing did you do?
would be interesting to see what levels of Azadirachtin that accumulates in the plant after various kinds of application rates

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Root drench and foliars before flowering. Control and test were all the same clones of multiple strains.

CHS issues with all treated clones, zero issues with untreated clones.

Should you decide to use neem/aza, please be sure to let people know when you share. Thanks so much!

 

[troutman]

Use lots of peat moss.

These tests gave positive results of reduced pH and alkalinity. Thus it was concluded that
the water passed through a filter containing Sphagnum peat moss would undergo an
overall decrease in alkalinity.

https://rjptonline.org/HTMLPaper.aspx?Journal=Research%20Journal%20of%20Pharmacy%20and%20Technology;PID=2018-11-9-32

 

[bye12]

Use lots of peat moss.

https://rjptonline.org/HTMLPaper.aspx?Journal=Research%20Journal%20of%20Pharmacy%20and%20Technology;PID=2018-11-9-32

Interesting reading, but I have already ordered a Reverse osmosis system but might give this a try later on.
Have you tried using peat moss yourself?

Thanks for the info thou

 

[bye12]

I think I had to little information when I started this tread. I'm sorry.
PH and Alkalinity are NOT the same can cannot be treated the same.

"Water alkalinity and pH are not the same. Water pH measures the amount of hydrogen (acid ions) in the water, whereas water alkalinity is a measure of the carbonate and bicarbonate levels in water. Think of carbonates and bicarbonates as dissolved limestone. The higher the alkalinity of the water, the more lime it contains and therefore, the more rapidly the water can cause the growing medium pH to rise. On the other hand, the pH of the water does not have any influence on the pH of the growing medium."


So my water contains lots of lime stone which will raise the PH of the grow medium gradually.
Happy I went with a RO system. I could probably counteract it with a customized nutrient blend but I just got started with organics so that might be a later project.

For more reading on Alkalinity VS PH.

Water Alkalinity vs pH - What's the Difference? | PT Growers and Consumers

Learn about the distinction between water alkalinity vs pH, understand their significance in horticulture, and select the right fertilizer accordingly.

www.pthorticulture.com