Help with COCO PROBLEMS

[mostlyreputable]

First time grower, wish I woulda went organic, but I chose coco and now im having problems, never ending problems.. and very SLOW growth. :sad:

Info: Coco, just turned 3 weeks old.
-Nutrients are flora series, currently around 430ppm with 4M/5G/1B with 2.5Ml cal-mag per gallon. adding silica soon.
-water every couple of days, don't water till runoff.
-4ft 4 tube HO Fluorescent, switching to 1000HPS(dimmable) soon, might be sooner than later because im not sure if the slow growth is being caused in part by not having enough light)

-Because there is so much varying info on feeding, watering, flushing, pH, PPM when using coco, im kind of at a loss.

-Plant 1: Of the three, this one is the worst. I did a no no, and watered a day after a watering because I thought it was a N deficiency, but now im not sure. Im leaning towards nutrient lockout as the cause of the yellowing not subsiding

The remedy I believe for this would be to flush, but ive read conflicting reports: one being that if you feed properly you shouldn't need to flush, the other that its good to flush every 2-4 feedings. How do you properly flush? What amount of runoff? with pH balanced water? Im thinking since im in coco I would flush with pH balanced RO water with cal mag in it.



-Plant 2: I've only fed twice so far, as it takes a while to dry in between waterings, but the yellowing will go away for a few days, then start to return, not sure why but when I upped the nutes the tips are starting to curl down, but not burn. Cant possibly be N overdose because of the color of the leaves.

-Not sure what to do for this, but should I have runoff every time I feed? Because it takes a while for the coco to dry out, so if I did water that much it could easily take a week for me to need to re water.


-Plant 3:I think this is nitrogen toxicity, the leaving are "canoeing" I guess you could say, getting the same feed levels as everything else. Still growing slow.


---If you cant help with everything I understand, im asking for a lot of info, but help with properly flushing would be greatly appreciated(water amounts, runoff, water type.)


-Also, as far as not needing to flush: Measuring the levels of runoff, if the ppm coming out are higher than going in means lower the feed ppm lvl, and vice versa.



Ive researched so much but there is so much fucking misinformation out there, couple that with my problems, and I don't have time to keep skimming through the bullshit for the two lines of good info.

Thank you

 

[kin_dawg]

What is the pH when you feed nutrients? 5.8-6.1 is what it should be. That looks to be the problem.
Your getting too worried, relax a little. Sometimes things can be a little slow with seedlings when started in coco until you get a bit more experience under your belt.
Flush with plain water pH to 6.0, until water runs through the bottom of the pot until you are satisfied that the media is 'flushed' there's no exact amount, just flush. Then feed with pH nutrient to about .8ec I'm not familiar with your line of nutrients.
So flush em through get the pH fresh nutes into em and once the roots take hold and and you get a better light over them they will take of like a rocket and this will be a distant memory however a valuable learning experience.
Forget RO water and all that jazz (unless you have well water or the like) no need to complicate something very simple, just have some patience (they are still very young.
All the best. Any more questions hit it up.

 

[kin_dawg]

Something I forgot to make mention of- I don't germinate in coco any longer, havnt done for many years because of the same slow starts your experiencing now. I see many others with righteous starts in coco growing happily but I skip it. Plant into coco at the first set of true leaves, doesn't matter if you transplant the seed raise mix into the coco the roots will happily grow out into the coco.
Hth.

 

[mowood3479]

I just raised a seed up in coco.. Usually use clones, so I'm not the most experienced seed grower but what I did was feed @ 1/2 strength... .7 ec and 6 ph. I used only a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of water/nutrient mix per feeding( just enough to wet the top of the solo cup the seed was started in ) Feeding eod. It took a month or so to get out of the seedling stage but it's growing well and healthy now.
I tried not to saturate the coco until there were roots fully encompassing the solo cup..

 

[Kweku Ananse]

Yeah you did a nono, you are overwatering and your ph is whack. Looks like your ppms are right (no deficiency or tox)

You should always have runoff until your exit ppm is close to your input. If your nutes are. 7ec, then water everytime until you get runoff down to .8-.9ec

If you need to flush, same story. You should probably be watering every 3-4 days in coco with that small a seedling. Like above poster said, relax. Let it grow. let them dry out more between waterings

 

[Kweku Ananse]

Also, try a lower nute pH. When your shit doesn't drink fast yet, it helps to pH a Lil lower, so it's in the sweet spot as it sits in the pot and rises, by the time the plant is thirsty.

I use 5.6-5.7 in veg. 5.8 in bloom. 6.0 is too high until the plants are really sucking later in flower.

If you water veg at 6.0, the plant isn't finished drinking by the time it rises to 6.2-6.3. That third pic is definitely pH issues (probably too high).

You need to water less frequently with more runoff each time

 

[Mikell]

We need to find out who is telling newbies to start seeds/cuts in oversized containers and hang them from their toe nails.

And right beside the people that follow that bunk advice.

Seed flats, solo cups, nursery trays are the size range you're looking for. Granted that looks like the ubiquitous "gallon", hence not the worst I've seen, it still takes a bit of experience to baby a small plant in a large container.

If you can't be bothered to sift through the stickies/megathreads, prepared to have your head turned every which way by anyone with a convincing opinion.

Legwork is your responsibility.

Cheers

 

[kin_dawg]

Aw yeh, start lings in a cup. However I still see the same problems, even in a cup. As mowood touched on, charging or light feeding seems to be the way to go when germing in coco, however at $80+ for a pack of seeds never saw me putting a drop of nute near any seed. Each to their own.

 

[eebbnflow]

I tend to have trouble with seedlings , especially when starting in large cups or pot or even in coco . I have neve tried plug or rapid rooters (yet) but currently what works for me is soaking peat pellets in 20ppm ph5.6 . Let's them drain well after even give them alight squeeze to get the water out so its not water logged, try to fluff it up after . Place germinated seed in the peat .days later Once the seed and roots emerge Transplant extra carefully into a small pot or beer cup . Seems to be working for me ( I remember just dropping in a seed in a cup and voila it grew )

 

[kin_dawg]

ebbnflow- im curious have you ever tried plain ol' seed raise mix? Not sure if that's what you call it there but just bagged seed raise soil. Found a good one years ago, its been the best to me. Tried out a more 'premium' version recentley and killed about 100 seeds to damping off.

 

[GreeeeN GRassss]

how many posts did it take before we got to pot size well said mikell.

your plants are lost in them huge pots, i made the same mistakes but you need to do your own leg work man. learn the basics of growing not just in coco but in general. to many people been lazy do your research.

 

[JusticeFrog]

Love coco for so many reasons but almost never have good luck starting seeds in it even when using small containers. Im with eebbnflow and kin dawg on this one. Next time try starting in something like lightwarrior or peat pucks. As far as those babies are concerned whats done is done and they will eventually pull out of it. I would not flush with plain water. I would stick to half strength nutes and try to keep the pot evenly moist. Using plain water is going to throw off the cocos cec and you will start to see deficiencies. To me it looks like the coco is way too dry on top. The bottom of the pot may still be moist but the roots are not down there yet. Can we ask why all of the perlite? I have much better luck in straight coco. You get plenty of airation when you water as the water running through the coco draws air into the pot. Good luck with your grow and dont give up on coco yet. When you get it squared away those things are gonna take off.

 

[kin_dawg]

how many posts did it take before we got to pot size well said mikell.

your plants are lost in them huge pots, i made the same mistakes but you need to do your own leg work man. learn the basics of growing not just in coco but in general. to many people been lazy do your research.

I can understand the concern about pot size and it may well be a contributing factor, but really, it's not like it's growing in a 40 gallon drum, it's a 3 week old seedling on its first set of true leaves. Look at the amount of perlite in there. If well grown it should be enjoying life in a big way.
So we missed the pot size, shit happens, most ppl assume it's common knowledge what the fuck are we doing here so drop the attitude, he had questions- did you miss that- which were answered graciously. That's what the site is for..

 

[Fuel]

I will be direct, but wtf is this salts parano ... with seedlings. It don't have any sense.

It don't have any sense too to flush a medium wich don't get a single time an heavy mineral nut formula (the one we generally use since the middle of the flowering stage to the end, just before the final flush).

There is no burn or any esoteric "lock out", they are just asphyxiated. Cannabis is not a submarine algae, specially with the incredible capilarity of the coco coir. Let it dry and to weight nothing, don't be affraid.

If you don't want to have to flush your coir based on an esoteric rule about salts, just watch your plants. The "green" must be like velvet, not plastic. One time that you master that, you can throw your EC meter and forget it.

 

[highsociety420]

yeah, the perlite shouldnt have that color in this stage of the growth. Looks like you are giving too much salts, try give it less ec. In the seedling i like to give it 0.4, so they drink more water and develop the root better.

other thing, i dont know your cocos brand, but coco has naturaly the ability to release potassium (k) into the midium when you water it, which too much can cause lock out of nutrients. So try to use a nutrient that has less potassium. This is a common problem in coco.

The curve in the leaves should be temperature problem and looks like heat. Try to low the humidity of your grow room too, it will makes the plant drink more water and evaporate the water faster if you overwatered. This will also cause accumulation of salts, but then you give it a flush later.

About the flush you were talking about, like said before in this thread, you dont need to do it unless you gave too much salts to then. You should study more about growing before growing. It looks like you know too little. Do your research, there are some sites that gives you all the basic information that you need and more. Would tell you the one i have used to learn, but... this forums politic dont allow me to hahah. There is everything in the internet, just do your search.

Try to do those things and good luck.

 

[highsociety420]

Forgot something. I like to put the seeds, after germinated, into a small pot (usually 500ml) with a small amount of coco in the botton and peat moss in the rest of it and give it some Great White Shark that has some beneficial bacterias and mainly beneficial fungi (Mycorrhizae) in it. Actually you can try any fert that has mycorrhizae, like Piranha from AN (just know those two ). It will help a lot developing the root since those fungis have a biological relationship with the roots of the plant and i think they do it better in peat than in coco (just my opinion).

And after you have done all your research, i recommend you to read this thread from HGO https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241341. This guy know a lot about growing in coco and his system looks like works amazingly. I'm currently giving it a try, but still in the beginning. Maybe later i give my feedback.

 

[PoweredByLove]

i'm gonna pretend you're talking directly to me and skip over reading the other replies cool? forgive me if it's already been covered, just take it as a confirmation.

first thing looks like those pots are too big, you're watering too much while at the same time letting it get too dry. or you aren't giving any food.

you say you're feeding are you feeding with every watering? because you should be. coco isn't soil, you need to make sure the top stays moist. you don't need to saturate the pot everytime you water. you have what look to be barely 2-3 week old seedlings. they don't drink that much. water once real good till the pot is heavy. lightly water or mist the top everyday so that it doesn't get dry and dusty like this pic you're showing. when it get's light again water really good till it's heavy. repeat. never let the top inch get all dry and dusty like that, unless you have gnats you need to kill.

first thing i would do is moisten the plant. you can water till runoff of water only enough to wet the top it's up to you depending on whether the pot is completely bone dry right now. but you need to water the top.

after you do that give it a day and see where it's going if it needs water again then feed it at half strength and continue to keep the top moist. you should see new growth again if you're going in the right direction, if you're not the yellowing will continue. if the yellowing continues then increase the food by 25%-50%. at the next watering. either lightly on the top or saturate it depending on how much and when you watered last.

also need to make sure the pH is in the proper range. i keep mine between 6.0-6.3 when i do coco. if the pH is in the right range and the plant is properly moist then you will see recovery. since coco doesn't buffer that well you don't have to worry about flushing if your pH is off in the runoff. just make sure you keep feeding at the right pH and keep the soil moist. the pH should stay in the right range.

when coco get's too dry the pH rises and the concentration of salts get to deadly levels. keep that top inch from getting dried out. if you are going to do drip feed or multiple feeds as you will probably have to eventually, make sure to keep those ppm's in check so you don't run into salt buildup.