help with cloning???

[yes_i_cannabis]

hey dudes..ive got some 6 week old bagseed babies up..i want to clone them b4 i turn them in the 12/12 room..im just not sure about where to take the cuttings from...i know not to take them from too high on the plant, but do i take the entire branch or just the new sprouts or what??..ive got some pics so ya can see what im dealing with..the plants are stretched abit because of bad lighting in the first 2 weeks...any tips would be unreal...

 

[sproutco]

I think I would delay flowering and let the plants get older before I took cuttings. You need 1 node (where a leaf comes out) below ground (you would remove the leaves) and at least 1 node above ground with leaves. For all practical purposes, it probably doesn't matter what part of the plant you take this from. Use a rooting hormone and some sort of high humidity structure to prevent water loss before they root. I use a fish tank covered in clear plastic and a shop light florescent on top.

 

[yes_i_cannabis]

oh..ok..so i need to have a node down in the medium..i didnt know tht..yep, i have a prop box and warming tray and gel and stuff...just wasn't sure about the place to clone from...cheers sprout

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Actually you don't even need a node in the medium. Just cut off a 4-6" growing tip, dip in the hormone of your choice (optional) and give them adequate O2 to the roots with moderate humidity, low light and upper 70's for temps and you're set. Here's some pics of my bubbler clones at 14 days to show how easy it can be.

 

[Tunefull]

Hi m8
Never heard of needing to have a node below the soil before(unless i mis read)

Mm normally when i take cuttins i take from lower down the plant(the ones that wont yeild much anyway under the canopy)

Also i TRain(LST)My plants a lot,So i take my cuttings according to which way i am training that plant....If i see two shoots to close together i cut one(if i am after cuttings)



Mmm getting them to root is tricky
They will root(Given half tidy conditions)but unless u have a good set up your looking at anything from 2-3 weeks to even see roots starting to come(no where near the amount MTF has in his pic)
The good thing tho,a Good cutting area is not expensive(just well planned(lot of small details))

Again i think where in the world you live plays a bigger role for cuttings than any other side of growing(in my view)
Where i live(In the UK)
It would only be naturally warm enough for rooting a few months out of the year...the rest of the year to have a fast rooting set up you would need to intruduce some heat(this is what i mean about a cutiing area having a lot of small details)
Also your medium you choose to root in will be important(soil/water/perlite/cubes/bubblers so on)
They all work,Tho some must be faster than others(and i think the fastest is the bubbler(looking at MTF's pics again)


Anyway i am starting to jst ramble now*grins*
Will say quick tho

MTF
I dont know much about bubblers
But is there anything(Feeds)In the water?
I can get mine to show root in about 10 days now(In rockwool)
but i think i would have to let them go 3-4 weeks before i saw the amount of roots u have

So what do you think the seceret is of bubblers of other mediums/set ups...

I mean assuming everything else in a set up was the same(temps/humid/lights)and say a rockwool set up and a bubbler were set up...Side by side even....I am sure the bubbler would produce more roots faster....Why would this be tho?
What happens at the top of the water and the bottom of the cuttings(where the roots appear)To make them come so fast(and in such abundunce?)


Sorry for a long post guys
Enjoy a smoke at the end those who made it thru*grins*

 

[yes_i_cannabis]

cool...i just took some clippings..i took 4 from the lower part of the plant..i am just experimenting..if i don't get any sucess ive only wasted a coupkle of bucks...i did 2 in rockwool and 2 in coco pucks...its all trial and error i spose...
cheers for the tips dudes

 

[Tunefull]

Hi again m8

Yes deff look at it as trial and error

Keep trying and when u get it right(how u want)U will know why it works..

Not used the coco pucks
The rockwool cubes are good tho
I have small cubes(about a inch)
I turn them upside down tho(so the larger bit is my base(if u see what i mean(assuming your rockwool cubes are the same)))
Also i read to NOT use the Pre made hole in the center
But rather to make your own holes more to one side(Think to let it breath)

Of course there is no prob useing the center hole(just somit for next time maybe))

 

[yes_i_cannabis]

oh yea..ok..sweet..thanx guys..i'll let ya know how i go..

 

[MTF-Sandman]

MTF
I dont know much about bubblers
But is there anything(Feeds)In the water?
I can get mine to show root in about 10 days now(In rockwool)
but i think i would have to let them go 3-4 weeks before i saw the amount of roots u have

So what do you think the seceret is of bubblers of other mediums/set ups...

I mean assuming everything else in a set up was the same(temps/humid/lights)and say a rockwool set up and a bubbler were set up...Side by side even....I am sure the bubbler would produce more roots faster....Why would this be tho?
What happens at the top of the water and the bottom of the cuttings(where the roots appear)To make them come so fast(and in such abundunce?)

Just a little nutes in there...normally 1/4 strength FF or PBP grow, LK and some 1/2 strength Hygrozyme.

I've tried rapid rooters, RW in a dome and a couple of other ways but so far the bubblers are about the cheapest, fastest, easiest and most successful way I've found for me. IMO, it's all about disolved oxygen levels at the root zone and proper temps/humidity. I use to have all kinds of flaky problems with the previous methods (slimy spots, wilting, never rooting, etc) under a dome until I tried the bubblers. The RW in the 2" netpots holds enough water to keep them moist so that you don't need a dome, while they are constantly bombarded with O2 from below (without the heat of a pump like the aero cloners). My RH is usually around 65 with room temps usually hovering around 77-78.

One big trick I've learned is to go easy on the light...I usually use 1 40w bulb in a shop light about 1' over them and can root up to 140 clones under that light (I only wish I could flower that many tho ) If the light is too intense, the clones will basically eat themselves alive trying to photosynthesize all that energy...which takes away from the energy available to make roots. The clone in the bottom right of those pics was the last one to root (started showing roots on day 14) which is why that leaf started to yellow...oh well 34 perfect looking clones out of 35 isn't too bad

Bubble cloning is by no means the end all best solution tho...it just seems to work best for my climate and setup, so don't ditch what you're doing if you're having good success....which is sounds like you are if roots are showing in 10 days. I'm still learning alot about this great plant that we all enjoy as well, so if anyone out there has some tips please feel free to share them with the crowds.

 

[Tunefull]

Hi m8
Yes i went thru a lot of testing over the last months to see what would suit me best
And found all methods do work(just some take so long)

I liked just plain water and polystyeryne sitting on top(with holes in)And the cuttings in there(no dome)
This was a simple method/no set up involved/takes next to no space,but took so long(3 weeks)but is great if your going away for a week or two and want a simple method(infact the guy who i saw do it first done it in a saucepan and went away for 2 weeks)

soil/perlite(tho not tried pelite on its own)Is good again,but again it seems to take to long(and cant see how there doing under the soil,and does take a bit more space up)

at mo i use rockwool(only started useing it a few weeks back)
I found it great(thought it would fall apart but it holds it shape)
easy to use,and as i say i use the fat side(Normally the top)AS my base,so they can sit anywhere and have a good base(not top heavy)

As say really happy with this method,but i know it would take them 3-4 weeks(at least)To build a root mass like you have(Which now i see it can be done i want to do it)*grins*

I am not very good at ferts(and what they mean)but would a simple Veg feed(1/4 str)be a good thing to mix with the water i soak my cubes in?

Also i Use a tray with its own lid/Dome...Would i benifit from taking this off u think?
I normally just keep it on(andf mist it daily)But my RH(That humidity?)Is about 85%(temps around 70deg(But only gets to that in summer(It be to cold unless i add heat(as say thru a light ideally(kill two birds with one stone))

I built a little set up for cloneing(it is to big(i see now i basicly just need one big enough to hold my tray/propegater)it has a very basic strip floro in(very low watt)


Mmm and thats about it really,now i want to know more about your set up*grins*

The O2(u mean oxygen?)
comes from the bubbles bursting on the surface of the water(And the stems sit just above the water line?)

The method i use at mo,will only work in summer(when is naturally warm)for it to work in winter(Its out in my shed so snow is all round in winter)i would have to add a bit of heat thru maybe a bulb that will create a bit of heat for me(will see))


What country you in MTF(or Continant if want)*SmileS*

Because you dont feel u will need to heat the water up a bit in winter?


Lol k gone on enough for now
And yes chip in with info guys

 

[2buds]

I installed a shelf over a 400mh in the veg room added 2 of these

old pic only 1 shown,they're T5 2' lights and being a lazy mofo I got a couple of these

this spring. Works like a charm, slower than hydro I geuss but consistant. Usually takes 1-2 weeks for roots.

 

[gOurd^jr.]

heres a nice easy method that a very well respected IC'er uses with much success.....cheap ass hell too
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10225&highlight=wick+cloner

me I built my own little bubbler, but I get lots of yellowing and such, guess I better add a bit of Veg nutes. I actually just put up a thread on this issue here
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31059

As many have said before you just gotta keep at it until you find some methods that work for your needs. I started out just putting cuttings in a cup of plain water, and it works mosto f the time, but it can take several weeks.
peace love positivity

 

[MTF-Sandman]

In the great Republic of Texas ...so cool temps are rarely a problem. Heat on the other hand is my biggest enemy and my AC bills show that. My bubbler(s) sit right above a couple of shop lights so the residual warmth of them seems to keep things in check even when it's 60 in the room.

If you can keep them from wilting with the dome off, the go that way by all means. Also if you can avoid misting them, they will show roots quicker since the plant senses the urgency to form roots to keep it alive. At the very least, start taking the dome off in increasing amounts after the 3rd or 4th day to start forcing them to use the roots for moisture uptake.

I try not to have any air directly blowing on them until they start showing roots...and then it's only very mild. My logic is that the lack of air blowing on them decreases transpiration which in turn allows the plant to keep it's intracellular moisture intact...and in turn makes the stored nutrients in the leaves more available to be transported to the base of the stem so that roots can be formed easier. After roots start showing the slight increase in airflow forces the plant to uptake the mild nutes/LK/HG and about that time the root systems take off.

I usually feed the moms a healthy mixed veg/flower nute mix the day before cloning to increase the stored nutes in the leaves also.

Yup, O2=Oxygen...I use an air pump for a 20-60 gallon aquarium ($10) to drive air into the bubble curtains...which oxygenates the water as well as the bubbles bursting on the surface further increasing the O2 levels of the water that splashes against the bottom of the RW. I usually set the water level about ¼" above the bottom of the RW and let it drop as it's consumed by the girls. In that pic, the water is about 1½" below the bottoms of the netpots. Now that I think about it, the bubbles splashing against the roots below the pots when the levels drop are probably helping with the formation of more branching in the roots.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Hey gOurd^jr., try lowering the light levels to reduce the yellowing...

 

[Tunefull]

Ahh cheers JJS(about the node)

I see what he is saying now(re read it)
And was my mistake
I thought sproutco was saying to have at least one node of the mother plant under ground(COuntersinking it in t he soil)

Lol no idea how i came to think that is what he meant)

 

[Tunefull]

Hi MTF

I deff think your root structure(so early in rooting)
Is down to the O2 it is constantly getting(The pump runs all the while the room runs?)
The little bit of feed in the water must help aswell(next clones i take i will try some cubes dipped in a 1/4 str veg mix)Will compare them side by side to some not dipped))


but yea that dampish o2 that splatters your roots randomly Is deff to there liking





Btw isnt the abundace of O2(amoung other things)During the dinosaur period the reason they(And mainly plants that were eaten)WEre growing so so huge?

I wonder if just having the Pump blowing air in would make a diff(Tho it would not get scatterd/spashed onto the root(like a bubbler)but would still in theroy deliver some o2?



I dont think i be able to Use a bubbler without(in colder times)Needing to heat the water,So for that reason i would stick with rockwool(without water sloshing around i could move/house them easier(Could just sit the tray/dome on my inbuilt ballast on my reflector( i keep the ballast inside the veg room coz it helps heat the place in winter(not much tho(last winter even with the lights running temps were only about 40 deg)
I could not get anything to root in the cold(tho the plants that were allready vegging seemed ok with the cold(they carried on growing)


Cold is deff my nemesis
Like today now
Middle of summer
And been raining and is cloudy for the past few days*grins*

Even a Hot day for us would not be so for some other places
I think for us say 90 deg would be a really really hot day
And if it ever gets to say 95 deg that would send panic all over the country(i honestly dont think we get that hi)

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Yup...the air pumps run 24/7, the lights 18/6.

I don't think the nutes speed up the rooting process any, but as soon as there are roots it provides them enough to get them kicked into gear without any down time.

The Hygrozyme/LK does seem to speed up the process tho by a few days.

If it matters, I'm using clean rain water for them...so that may have some hidden benefits that I don't know of.

I thought that the CO2 levels were alot higher back in the dinosaur days...which is why plants still have the genetic programming to use lots more CO2 than is now normally found in the air - can anyone verify this?

90F? Sounds like a cold front just blew in to me

 

[Tunefull]

WEll given me a lot to think on m8
And a few things to try*grins*


MTF u said
"I thought that the CO2 levels were alot higher back in the dinosaur days...which is why plants still have the genetic programming to use lots more CO2 than is now normally found in the air"



Yes that is what i meant(What did i imply then?)

 

[MTF-Sandman]

ahhh...must of been a typo with the "O2" instead of "CO2" in yer post...