Help. Sick plants

[abazaba315]

Hi all,

My plants growth has been slow. Leafs are very thin and fragil.

Ph 6.5
Temp 73
Humidity 55
24 hr light on
3gal pots
Fox farm happy frog soil
Volt fl1 led. Dli is 32 to 35 (shows good on meter but seems low to me). Lowest setting on led and 18 inches away from canopy

 

[SubGirl]

What nutes are you using?

have you included calmag? They look like they need calmag and a little Epsom salt in your water would green them up a bit.


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[abazaba315]

I honestly did not add any nutirients this week when watering. I ran unto early issues by adding too much nutrients too early, too much calmag and had the light on way too high. This is my 2nd grow with these leds and it's been tuff dialing them in, in this 8x8 to say the least

 

[SubGirl]

Too much calmag? How much did to add to a gallon.

 

[abazaba315]

Too much calmag? How much did to add to a gallon.

Half tbs. I was getting replies after posting pictures that the plants already had enough in the soil.

 

[SubGirl]

If you use loaded soil like happy frog you don’t need to add nutrients for at least three or four weeks. Your soil already has these nutes. But the soil does not have calmag in it, you still need to add that with your water. Depending on how long they have been in that soil, they have probably had a bit too much nutes but your leaves look to me like they are asking for cal mag. If your PH runoff is at 6.5 that’s a good thing. It’s the perfect PH for your plants to accept a little calmag.
i would keep watering with the same calmag and no nutes but add a little Epsom salt too. It will green up your plants a bit. You should see a difference in a couple days.
‘’that’s only one opinion. I hope folks chime in with more advice. good luck abazaba

 

[CrushnYuba]

i agree about the cal and mag. i personally would give them a full feed with everything. just looking at the size plant to pot, i cant imagine there is anything left in that soil to keep them fed. just treat it like empty media. i disagree with anyone that says that mix has enough cal or mag. what ingredient do they add for that?
i think they need more everything.
turn up the light
if you raise the temperature, the plant will recover and grow faster. i think this would make a big difference

DLI of 35 is adequate but you are right. its low. i would rather give them higher intensity and let them sleep to hit that DLI. DLI is really for greenhouse growers trying to figure out how much light to supplement. i dont think about dli inside. Look at a DLI map of the usa

Look at the month of july. thats the peak veg growth month outside. i grow in greenhouses in that tiny red spot that has the highest DLI in the country (55-60). i give fresh rooted clones a week to put roots out and harden with shade. then i give them full sun. they love it. as the sun moves overhead, each leaf tilts to follow it and get as much light as it can. its almost impossible to overfeed them. they are just stronger and healthier then any indoor plant i have seen. its not that im a great grower. its the sun.
Now, look at the least sunny yellow area. it has a dli of 40-45. so the least sunny place in america is getting way more light then u per day. its also getting it in only like 15 hrs!!!. so really your intensity is like half of what it is in the least sunny part of america.
weed has evolved to grow with real sun for the past 2000+ years in pretty sunny areas

 

[abazaba315]

i agree about the cal and mag. i personally would give them a full feed with everything. just looking at the size plant to pot, i cant imagine there is anything left in that soil to keep them fed. just treat it like empty media. i disagree with anyone that says that mix has enough cal or mag. what ingredient do they add for that?
i think they need more everything.
turn up the light
if you raise the temperature, the plant will recover and grow faster. i think this would make a big difference

DLI of 35 is adequate but you are right. its low. i would rather give them higher intensity and let them sleep to hit that DLI. DLI is really for greenhouse growers trying to figure out how much light to supplement. i dont think about dli inside. Look at a DLI map of the usa
View attachment 18964278
Look at the month of july. thats the peak veg growth month outside. i grow in greenhouses in that tiny red spot that has the highest DLI in the country (55-60). i give fresh rooted clones a week to put roots out and harden with shade. then i give them full sun. they love it. as the sun moves overhead, each leaf tilts to follow it and get as much light as it can. its almost impossible to overfeed them. they are just stronger and healthier then any indoor plant i have seen. its not that im a great grower. its the sun.
Now, look at the least sunny yellow area. it has a dli of 40-45. so the least sunny place in america is getting way more light then u per day. its also getting it in only like 15 hrs!!!. so really your intensity is like half of what it is in the least sunny part of america.
weed has evolved to grow with real sun for the past 2000+ years in pretty sunny areas

I bumped the lights up a notch. Dpi is now measuring around 45. Will add a light dose of calmag and nutrients.

 

[abazaba315]

Here they are a day later after being fed cal mag, nutrients and water 6.5ph.

Also turned led up.

Idk seems they are getting worse??

4 diff strains here also.

 

[weedemart]

first turn your light 18/6 . plant need a pause. imagine working 24/24 7days a week non stop , how your metabolism would suffer.

2. dont use cal mag or epsom salt , it will be worst.

3. make sure you let dry the medium between irrigation and you need to irrigate enought until it run off.

4. Never irrigate pure water except if you want induce deficiencies( before harvest).

Just give them a .7ec(.5scale) nutrients dose and keep this schedule.the new growth should come back healthy and its sign plant recover.

 

[CrushnYuba]

what do you feed them? thats pretty important for anyone to tell u to not use cal or mag. most fert's i have seen dont have enough. especially calcium. most chem ferts have sulphates in them so they dont include calcium. calcium combined with any sulphate precipitates to gypsum. its really the only thing that cant be included in one bottle or bag.
there's definitely no cal or mag in your potting mix to support growth. I have read the bag before. even if you have nice well water, you dont have that much in it.
I am sure there are some really overpriced 2 part liquid nutes that have enough calcium. i dont know anyone that uses them

 

[weedemart]

what do you feed them? thats pretty important for anyone to tell u to not use cal or mag. most fert's i have seen dont have enough. especially calcium. most chem ferts have sulphates in them so they dont include calcium. calcium combined with any sulphate precipitates to gypsum. its really the only thing that cant be included in one bottle or bag.
there's definitely no cal or mag in your potting mix to support growth. I have read the bag before. even if you have nice well water, you dont have that much in it.
I am sure there are some really overpriced 2 part liquid nutes that have enough calcium. i dont know anyone that uses them

What is enought calcium?

High concentration of calcium with sulphate will cause precipitation but we are far from these concentration in hydroponics.

All the soilless mix are fortified/buffed with calcium.

And lastly, your tap water is full of calcium. The only time you could lack of calcium is if you use reverse osmosis with nutrient ec lower than 0.5

 

[abazaba315]

I am using lotus nutrients at .5 recommended dosage.

Here they are today. Some leafs are poiting vertical (wonder if this is because I bumped the light higher)?

 

[abazaba315]

Praying leafs?

 

[CrushnYuba]

What is enought calcium?

High concentration of calcium with sulphate will cause precipitation but we are far from these concentration in hydroponics.

All the soilless mix are fortified/buffed with calcium.

And lastly, your tap water is full of calcium. The only time you could lack of calcium is if you use reverse osmosis with nutrient ec lower than 0.5

they arent too concentrated once they are diluted with water in the rez. but in the concentrated nute bottles they are. thats why it has to be added seperate most of the time. most soilless mixes just have some sort of liming agent for PH buffering. its not much. calcium and magnesium carbonate raises PH so there is only so much that can be added. its not really water soluble and takes a long time to break down. fox farm just has a little bit of oyster shell like most.

the calcium and magnesium in tap water is calcium and magnesium carbonate. its marginally suluble in water. its also the least available form to plants because its lack of solubility.

 

[weedemart]

they arent too concentrated once they are diluted with water in the rez. but in the concentrated nute bottles they are. thats why it has to be added seperate most of the time. most soilless mixes just have some sort of liming agent for PH buffering. its not much. calcium and magnesium carbonate raises PH so there is only so much that can be added. its not really water soluble and takes a long time to break down. fox farm just has a little bit of oyster shell like most.

the calcium and magnesium in tap water is calcium and magnesium carbonate. its marginally suluble in water. its also the least available form to plants because its lack of solubility.

almost half calcium carbonate is avaiblable but I agree magnesium carbonate is insoluble.

A trick to resolve that is nitric acid. When you neutralize carbonate with nitric acid it form calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate.

 

[CrushnYuba]

I'm not sure the reaction between nitric acid and calcium carbonate... But there isn't allot of calcium carbonate in well water. When water is in the ground it picks up small amounts by running through lime stone but it's not much because it's not really soluble. Nitric acid is verry acidic there's not that much you can add ..... And really the attraction between sulfate and calcium is SOOOO strong, i can't imagine it would bind with the N instead of the S.
Calcium nitrate is 15.5% nitrogen and 20% cal and it's soluble.
These new ferts are trending towards high k levels. U need high CA levels to support it. K-cal-mag should all her proportionate.

 

[weedemart]

I'm not sure the reaction between nitric acid and calcium carbonate... But there isn't allot of calcium carbonate in well water. When water is in the ground it picks up small amounts by running through lime stone but it's not much because it's not really soluble. Nitric acid is verry acidic there's not that much you can add ..... And really the attraction between sulfate and calcium is SOOOO strong, i can't imagine it would bind with the N instead of the S.
Calcium nitrate is 15.5% nitrogen and 20% cal and it's soluble.
These new ferts are trending towards high k levels. U need high CA levels to support it. K-cal-mag should all her proportionate.

When you had an acid to water it will neutralize carbonate to form bicarbonate and other salt. in the case of nitric acid , you will get magnesium nitrate,calcium nitrate.

from phosphoric acid; magnesium phosphate and calcium phosphate.

from sulfuric acid ; magnesium sulfate and calcium sulfate.

as you can see depending on which acid you choose you will end up with soluble or insoluble ions.

the k-cal-mag ratio is a myth.

calcium uptake doesnt work the same way magnesium and potassium does.

But yeah there a competition between magnesium and potassium for uptake . best ratio is 3-4. K:Mg

 

[abazaba315]

I transplanted one of them into a 5 gal pot and there was bot much root system at all. I was expecting to see it wall to wall in the 3gal pot but it wasn't. Hopefully they will grow more