help? should i use 600 or 1000hps? need to know

[codygreenthumb]

my room is 8'x6' and need to know if i should use a 1000hps on a light mover or two 600hps sationary what would be better for my room,get better yield, get more light,ect anybody please help me

 

[Philosophelon]

2x 600w on a mover.

2x 600w will yield a good deal more than 1x 1K, imho. This is because 600s are more efficient than 1Ks, they can be place closer to the canopy, and 2 bulbs provides considerably better coverage than 1.

That being said, any setup is much more efficient on a mover. That's because a mover allows your bulbs (ordinarily a point source) to shine from many different angles. You can also place your bulbs a little closer to the canopy.

 

[Eminem]

i think no matter what, you will need more lights. A 1000 is good for roughly a 4x4 area. On a mover, maybe 4x6??

A 600 is good for a 3x3 roughly. So 2 would do a 3x6 area


8x6= 48 sq ft, 48*35 watts per sq ft=1680. I think 35 would be the absolute minimum, you probably want more.

4 600's would be nice

 

[Philosophelon]

That is a good point, I just assumed that dude was settin' up a personal grow.

First off, it is very difficult to run a grow where the canopy takes up the entire room. You'll probably want to leave some space to work and move around. That being said, I've got a few questions for ya:

What size canopy do you want?
If you don't know that -- what kind of yield/timeframe are you looking for?

 

[codygreenthumb]

yes i am just setting up a personal grow for me and my mom and i want to do it right this time(aka more lighting) because i only have one 400hps right now and want to do it right next time and was thinking i want to use two 600hps but somebody says you get a better yeild off one 1000hps and i want to be able to pull 1.5 pounds to 2 pound every 4 to 5 months of bloom and i want to use digital ballast but some said they breke all the time is this true? and i do leave alot off side room on each side to walk around, about 1' on each side and i am only growing twelve plants our recomended limit.thanks anymore advice would help

 

[sparkjumper]

You need more light in that space,I run 3 1K in an 8 by 8 room you would need at least 2 1K's IMO

 

[Eminem]

I think its important to know how you plan on growing. 1000's have more penetration, so if growing bigger plants, that may be a better choice.

600's are more efficient with the power they use, but have less penetration.

You could run a 3x6 flood tray, and use two 600's on a mover.


Digital ballasts do fail. There used to be tons of reports here of them failing, but I havent see one lately. Maybe the quality is getting better?

 

[CoonLover]

2x 600w on a mover.

2x 600w will yield a good deal more than 1x 1K, imho. This is because 600s are more efficient than 1Ks, they can be place closer to the canopy, and 2 bulbs provides considerably better coverage than 1.

That being said, any setup is much more efficient on a mover. That's because a mover allows your bulbs (ordinarily a point source) to shine from many different angles. You can also place your bulbs a little closer to the canopy.

You will get a better yield from one 1000w then you can two 600w.

 

[Philosophelon]

You will get a better yield from one 1000w then you can two 600w.

That's flat-out wrong. Please do not answer questions to which you do not know the correct answer -- there are people here trying to learn and we don't want to give them bad advice, no?

There are probably some situations in which one would yield more using 1x 1Kw than 2x600w, but only if penetration is a MAJOR issue. Otherwise, 2x 600w will almost always beat 1x 1Kw.

I suggest that you find some people who have questions that fall within your realm of experience, perhaps 150w grows as you seem to have experience in that area. I don't mean to be a dick, but seriously, if you had real-world experience with both 600s and 1ks, you wouldn't have said what you said.

I was thinking i want to use two 600hps but somebody says you get a better yeild off one 1000hps and i want to be able to pull 1.5 pounds to 2 pound every 4 to 5 months of bloom

Not true in most circumstances, including yours.

I use vertical 1Ks because I grow trees and I need the penetration, but you need a hell of a lot more than 1 bulb for that style of growing to be efficient. Don't get me wrong, growing trees w/ 1Ks is very efficient (imo), but you need many bulbs for it to work right. Did that person explain why he believes 1x 1000w will yield more than 2x 600w? Does he have plenty of experience with both?

Think about it. How will 1200w from two point sources (remember the inverse square law) yield less than 1000w from one point source? Especially as 600w HPS put out more light and less heat per wattage than any other bulb. Also, you can put 600s closer to the canopy (inverse square law again) than 1Ks.

and i want to use digital ballast but some said they breke all the time is this true?

Not anymore. They used to be unreliable, but the new models are WAY more reliable than the old ones, I have a bunch myself and I've not had any problems. At the growshop I used to work at, we had very few issues with the new models of Galaxy and Lumatek, but Future-Brites still had issues (i.e. don't buy a Future-Brite). Since I've left, we started carrying NextGen ballasts as well, and the guys say they're not having any issues with them either, but we haven't sold them for very long. Quality digital ballasts (Lumatek, Galaxy, etc.) now come with a 5 year warranty, so if one does crap out, you can always replace it.

and i do leave alot off side room on each side to walk around, about 1' on each side and i am only growing twelve plants our recomended limit.thanks anymore advice would help

If you are using 1200w and a mover, I'd shoot for a maximum canopy size of 25 s.f. (~3.5' x ~7'). That'll be right around 50 wpsf (it's actually 48 wpsf). If you run CO2 you'll want to go with a smaller canopy (or more light) to increase your light intensity. If you are growing 12 plants in 25 s.f. (max), that gives you ~2 s.f. (max) per plant, which is small enough that 600s will provide sufficient intesity/penetration. Just don't let the canopy get too deep.

 

[CoonLover]

That's flat-out wrong. Please do not answer questions to which you do not know the correct answer -- there are people here trying to learn and we don't want to give them bad advice, no?

Who the fuck do you think you are. The GOD of lighting?
He asked for opinion and thoughts. He can read everyone's post and make an educated choice from there.

I suggest that you find some people who have questions that fall within your realm of experience, perhaps 150w grows as you seem to have experience in that area. I don't mean to be a dick, but seriously, if you had real-world experience with both 600s and 1ks, you wouldn't have said what you said.

So because I CHOOSE to use 150WHPS that means I don't know shit? So people that grow with 150hps aren't qualified to give THEIR PERSONAL THOUGHTS on anything outside of 150w grows?

Politely go yourself.

 

[Philosophelon]

Who the fuck do you think you are. The GOD of lighting?
He asked for opinion and thoughts. He can read everyone's post and make an educated choice from there.

So politely go yourself.

I'm not here to make friends, receive karma, show off my grows, etc.

I'm here to do everything in my power to see to it that as much (kick-ass) pot is grown on this rock as I can. It's the small part that I am able to play in ending the prohibition of Cannabis. I want people to realize the greatest success from their grows possible, and that means telling someone when advice they have been given is incorrect.

Sorry to step on your toes.

So because I CHOOSE to use 150WHPS that means I don't know shit? So people that grow with 150hps aren't qualified to give THEIR PERSONAL THOUGHTS on anything outside of 150w grows?

Nope, you probably know alot. It just means that you don't have experience with larger grows using 600w and 1Kw bulbs, and your personal thoughts are incorrect. I don't have any experience w/ 150w grows, and I bet my personal thoughts about them aren't entirely accurate, either. The people asking questions on this forum are not interested in the speculation of people who don't have relevant experience. It's nothing personal, just stay within your realm of expertise. I didn't say any type of growing is better, 'cause it's all good.

 

[CoonLover]

That's flat-out wrong. Please do not answer questions to which you do not know the correct answer -- there are people here trying to learn and we don't want to give them bad advice, no?


There are probably some situations in which one would yield more using 1x 1Kw than 2x600w, but only if penetration is a MAJOR issue. Otherwise, 2x 600w will almost always beat 1x 1Kw.

So your here to tell me I'm am wrong, giving bad advice? Then you write the underlined statement.

 

[Philosophelon]

Coon, need I remind you of what you stated?

You will get a better yield from one 1000w then you can two 600w.

The fact that, in some (very limited) circumstances, 1x Kw might out-yield 2x 600w does not make your statement correct.

 

[codygreenthumb]

opinions are like assholes everyboby has one j.k. lol but facts are always the best advice in my opinion a.k.a.(asshole) to help me overgrow the governmet and end this war/(prohibition) but really i was thinking two 600 are better because i grow sog so there pretty small plants and i don't need as much as penatration as u might think so do you think that is enough light for 12 3'plants sog style i mean i not growing real big trees because i never let them get taller than 3' but how much will i yeild this way u think philosophelon? is it good enough?

 

[Philosophelon]

...do you think that is enough light for 12 3'plants sog style i mean i not growing real big trees because i never let them get taller than 3' but how much will i yeild this way u think philosophelon? is it good enough?

Three feet is the max height you want to go with. Even at 3' tall, the bottom buds will be a little fluffy, but it still adds to your yields. If you are not as concerned about yield and are more concerned with getting large, dense colas, you might want to grow 2' plants, as this will yield more dense/large buds.

As far as yield is concerned, that depends on the pheno and the environment in which it is grown. If you have everything dialed in just right and a heavy yielding pheno, you could yield up to 2.5 lbs. With a low-yielding strain and/or some fuck-ups, as low as one pound. Most likely you will be somewhere in between 1 and 2.5 lbs per full flowering cycle. Sorry I can't be more specific, but there just isn't a good answer until you run a cycle and find out.

As far as an estimated timeline from rooted clone to harvest I don't think it's going to take you 4-5 months. You'll probably want 3 - 4 weeks veg, and 7 - 9 weeks flowering (generally speaking). Also, since you will need to train your plants into little bushes during veg, do a search for different methods of training (topping, pinching, SCROG, LST) and decide which combination thereof will work best in your situation. If you don't have much growing experience, I'd recommend topping early and doing a SCROG.

 

[codygreenthumb]

i really like the lst style and thats what i i doing to my plants under my 400hps plus it seams to be pretty easy and forgiving as long a u don't break the branches like a dumbass would, do u think that would work good under my new lights and what would be better 2' or 3' plants i like bigger buds and need a yeild of a least 1 to 1.5 pounds each harvest what style will get me this

 

[Philosophelon]

LST will work great, and if you already have experience with LST, then that's what you should use for sure. If you have a nice, dense 2 foot thick canopy, I don't think it will yield too much less than a 3' canopy, and you will have denser, larger buds overall.

This is because (assuming you have a dense canopy), not a hell of a lot of light gets past 2 feet anyway, and the bottom foot or so consists of smaller and fluffier buds. This adds to the total yield, but it lowers the overall size and density of your buds to some degree.

Think about it like this, a plant has X amount of energy to use to form buds. If it has fewer budsites, it can focus more energy on each budsite, giving you larger/denser colas. If it has more budsites, it focuses less energy on each budsite, giving you more bud overall, but also more popcorn bud. It will still have bitchin' main colas, but the rest of the buds are smaller (on average). I like this because I worry a lot less about budrot, but if I had to smoke it all myself I would do a shorter canopy.

Also, regarding a yield of 1 - 1.5 lbs per harvest, that's really pretty doable. For your first run while your getting the room dialed in, pick something that's not very finicky (no hermie tendencies!!) and is at least a moderately good yielder. Once everything is dialed in, unless you pick a low-yielding strain, you'll hit 1lb no problem, that's only like .38g/watt. For 1.5lb you'd need to hit .56g/watt, but that's totally reachable as well, even without CO2.

Finally, I would totally recommend a light mover. If you consider the cost/benefit ratio, it's the best thing I've ever done to increase yields. It also gives you shorter internodes and more even growth. A sealed room with CO2 increased my yields more than movers, but that adds a shitload of expense (Monitor, Genny, A/C, Dehuey, etc.).

 

[codygreenthumb]

i like indica's, whats a good indica stain to grow and i have been lollypoping all my plants before i lst them, do u think thats a good idea to get the energy focused on the top and get biger bud like u said, i hate all those litte buds anyway so i always clone the bottom branchs like 1/2' up the plant iis that good?

 

[Philosophelon]

I generally wait until my plants have bushed out a bit before lollypopping, but to each his own. Whatever gives you the size/shape plant you want.

As far as what Indica is a good one to dial-in your grow with, I'm really not the best guy to answer that. I grow mostly Sativas and Sativa-head hybrids, I don't grow very many stereotypically Indica-high strains.

 

[codygreenthumb]

HEY philosophelon what are some 50/50 hybrids, if u are, anyone out threre knows what ones are good for a small 2' lst grow